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One of Russia's richest women killedin private aircraft in Germany
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4105626.html
One of Russia's richest women, S7 Group co-owner Natalia Fileva, has died in a small plane crash in Germany, the Russian airline operator said. Ms Fileva, 55, was on board a single-engine, six-seat Epic LT aircraft that crashed in a field as it approached the small airport at Egelsbach, a town in south-western Germany, the airline's press service said in an email. German police said there appeared to be three people on board the plane, including the pilot of the flight, which originated in France. They said the two passengers were believed to be Russian citizens but that positive identification of the occupants would require further investigation. German aviation authorities were probing the cause of the crash. Egelsbach is about 10 kilometres south of Frankfurt. |
Appears to be MSN 19, a 2008-built Epic exported to Russia about 5 years ago.
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Local radio stating it was a single engined jet, however the Epic LT and Epic were turboprops, according to Wikipedia. The LT was a kt built A/C and the Epic was a factory built bird, but details of actual production are limited. The Epic Victory was apparently an experimental kit built single engined jet, however details on production are also limited.
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S7? As in S7 Airlines?
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Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 10435284)
S7? As in S7 Airlines?
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Originally Posted by gileraguy
(Post 10435267)
Local radio stating it was a single engined jet, however the Epic LT and Epic were turboprops, according to Wikipedia.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f5f36d2103.jpg The LT was a kit built A/C and the Epic was a factory built bird, but details of actual production are limited. |
thank you Dave.
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Epic LT crash in Germany kills businesswoman partner owner of S7 Airlines
The other owner of S7 Airlines was killed along with others when their Epic LT corporate jet crashed in Germany. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Germany.html RIP to all. ATB |
Note:
A police car racing to the scene of the crash collided with an other vehicle, killing the two people inside and seriously injuring three police officers, the DPA news agency reported. |
The air crash involved a six-seater aircraft travelling from France to the town of Egelsbach south of Frankfurt. The plane went down in a field at around 1330 GMT, police said. The Epic-Lt, a single-engined jet designed for private flights, disappeared from radars at 1322 GMT, according to data from a flight tracker Flighradar24. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...3VW%29_-_1.jpg |
Kit Plane
A real shame to be an airline owner and very rich but killed in a single pilot kit plane. Reminds be of the Bin Laden accident at Blackbushe. |
Whilst it is quite possible that there is a perfectly straightforward technical or human factors explanation behind such a sad loss...... It is apparently dangerous to one's health to be a successful business person in Russia these days.
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Not only is it not a jet, but it is also a kit aircraft without a type certificate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_LT_Dynasty |
It's said to be getting one soon.
https://beam.land/aviation/certifica...d-in-2019-2059 |
I am not saying it is necessarily of relevance here but what is the upshot of flying such an aircraft vs, say, a PC12. Clearly she could afford it... |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10435540)
I am not saying it is necessarily of relevance here but what is the upshot of flying such an aircraft vs, say, a PC12. Clearly she could afford it... |
The Epic looks like a big version of a Lance Evolution? 54 Epic built as Experimentals, two prototypes for certification with less 1,000 hours total in test - now only one prototype left? Did the S7 try to get the SET into airtaxi services? Let‘s see what this means for the almost done certification, maybe it is ‚done‘ now ;-). Action appears to be quite astonishing. With the Russian Lady and her father on board, one may expect an ATPL or professional from their airline at the yoke? Or was the aircraft owned and flown by the father? Some we‘ll probably never know. Rumors say, it appears the plane was too high and too fast on short final 08 when they decided to make a 360 at low altitude on short final diagonal through the traffic pattern, <500ft and high bank angles are under discussion. Why would one even consider that with such a hot bird - not go-around and do another approach, but do such a heavy stunt on low short final? |
Originally Posted by GMEDX
(Post 10435512)
A real shame to be an airline owner and very rich but killed in a single pilot kit plane. Reminds be of the Bin Laden accident at Blackbushe. Does seem a bit odd that it keeps happening. You would think that privileged people would be more educated as to risk. But clearly not. (edit: note that Leicester crash due to mechanical failure. https://assets.publishing.service.go...018_G-VSKP.pdf) |
Originally Posted by PerPurumTonantes
(Post 10435560)
Does seem a bit odd that it keeps happening. You would think that privileged people would be more educated as to risk. But clearly not.
Flying around in a kitplane isn't what would worry me, applying different safety standards rather so. |
Originally Posted by PerPurumTonantes
(Post 10435560)
Or a footballer and very rich but killed in a single prop piloted by a plumber... Or a rally driver and very rich but killed in a helicopter... Or a football club owner in Leicester... Or a racing driver and his team at Elstree...
Does seem a bit odd that it keeps happening. You would think that privileged people would be more educated as to risk. But clearly not. |
Originally Posted by PerPurumTonantes
(Post 10435560)
Or a footballer and very rich but killed in a single prop piloted by a plumber... Or a rally driver and very rich but killed in a helicopter... Or a football club owner in Leicester... Or a racing driver and his team at Elstree...
Does seem a bit odd that it keeps happening. You would think that privileged people would be more educated as to risk. But clearly not. |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10435540)
I am not saying it is necessarily of relevance here but what is the upshot of flying such an aircraft vs, say, a PC12. Clearly she could afford it... The Epic has basically the same engine as the PC12, but is more than a tonne lighter, and it goes some 50 knots or so faster. It is possibly the fastest single-engine turboprop around, faster even than a TBM. Since it is an experimental, costs are probably also a lot lower; just because you are rich doesn't meant you are not trying to save money. FYI, Egelsbach is the untowered exectuve airfield close to Frankfurt. It's where you go if you are not an airliner or a larger business jet, and want to go to Frankfurt. Jets up to 20 t are permitted with prior permission. There are special procedures for turboprops and jets, and since the Frankfurt Class C (the most restrictive airspace in Germany, comparable to Class B in the US) is only 1100 ft AGL, and the Class D (CTR) is quite close, it is "easy" to infringe if you are going fast. Possibly a factor if the stories about avoiding a missed approach and circling instead turn out to be true. The airport website has copies of the VFR charts. Bernd |
Buddy Holly,Ritchie Valens and JP Richardson, Patsy Cline, Aaliyah, Reba Mc Intyre's entire band, Jim Croce, countless celebrities/well to do killed by "semi-professional" operators over decades...indeed many are let down by their agents and have paid with their lives
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It amazes me that someone so wealthy would buy a cheap kitplane rather than something like a PC12.
Or is this another cases of using a cheap grey charter ?. |
Photos from 2018 show this airframe with 'Epicaircraft.com' titles across the fuselage. Could the owner have been involved with the company developing this type?
https://www.google.com/search?q=RA-2151G+epic+LT |
Originally Posted by Jhieminga
(Post 10435679)
Photos from 2018 show this airframe with 'Epicaircraft.com' titles across the fuselage. Could the owner have been involved with the company developing this type?
https://www.google.com/search?q=RA-2151G+epic+LT |
they have been trying to get that to market for some time,, I think the Chinese have pumped in some money, and its now very nearly certified...have a glance at epicaircraft.com....hardly a "kitplane"
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I have read elsewhere on the web that Natalia Fileva's husband Vladislav Filev is involved with the aircraft manufacturer as the main investor. |
Indeed it was reported their family took over majority/all of Epic. This particular aircraft is owned by them for quite some time and been featured in gear up landing in Moscow a few years ago. Family also owns a G550.
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There is an eyewitness account in some german forum by some model airplane pilot who watched things happening from his garden. He claimed they maneuvred low and slow right next to the field and runway with high bank angles and finally dropped their left wing before impact. They stalled it he believes. No smoke, no flames inflight, gear was up he said. His statement was filed officially with the police.
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German eyewitness:
Right Base on the side of the higway for HPA aproach over the outskirts of Erzhausen. Tight turn into ultrashort final with stall in the turn. German flugzeugforum: "Ich war heute bei der Kripo Darmstadt und habe meinen Augezeugenbericht zu Protokoll gegeben. Nur um einige Mutmaßungen hier zu zerstreuen: Ich wohne 600 meter südlch versetzt zum westlichen Landebahnende von EDFE. Ich war zufällig mit Sicht in Richtung Norden im Garten, als die Epic in maximal 100m Höhe mein Haus überflogen hat. Die Maschine hat den Ort überflogen, was sonst nur der Polizeihubschrauber darf, hab nur gerufen "Notlandung". Die Turbine lief, aber entweder unruhig oder es wurde gerade Gas herausgenommen, kein Rauch oder Flammen beobachtet. Die Maschine flog mit eingezogenem Fahrwerk ca 600 meter weiter und ist dann gefühlte 50 Meter hoch eng nach Westen eingekurvt ... ich dachte 1. das kann nicht sein und 2. gleich gibts nen Stall. Das passierte auch umgehend, die Epic ist über die linke Fläche abgeschmiert, hat noch eine halbe Rolle abwärts gemacht (so das ich die komplette Unterseite des Flugzeuges gesehen habe) und ist dann senkrecht mit sofortigem Aufschlagbrand eingeschlagen. " |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10435852)
There is an eyewitness account in some german forum by some model airplane pilot who watched things happening from his garden. He claimed they maneuvred low and slow right next to the field and runway with high bank angles and finally dropped their left wing before impact. They stalled it he believes. No smoke, no flames inflight, gear was up he said. His statement was filed officially with the police.
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Originally Posted by krohmie
(Post 10435858)
German eyewitness:
Right Base on the wrong side of the higway for HPA aproach over the outskirts of Erzhausen. Tight turn into ultrashort final with stall in the turn. German flugzeugforum: "Ich war heute bei der Kripo Darmstadt und habe meinen Augezeugenbericht zu Protokoll gegeben. Nur um einige Mutmaßungen hier zu zerstreuen: Ich wohne 600 meter südlch versetzt zum westlichen Landebahnende von EDFE. Ich war zufällig mit Sicht in Richtung Norden im Garten, als die Epic in maximal 100m Höhe mein Haus überflogen hat. Die Maschine hat den Ort überflogen, was sonst nur der Polizeihubschrauber darf, hab nur gerufen "Notlandung". Die Turbine lief, aber entweder unruhig oder es wurde gerade Gas herausgenommen, kein Rauch oder Flammen beobachtet. Die Maschine flog mit eingezogenem Fahrwerk ca 600 meter weiter und ist dann gefühlte 50 Meter hoch eng nach Westen eingekurvt ... ich dachte 1. das kann nicht sein und 2. gleich gibts nen Stall. Das passierte auch umgehend, die Epic ist über die linke Fläche abgeschmiert, hat noch eine halbe Rolle abwärts gemacht (so das ich die komplette Unterseite des Flugzeuges gesehen habe) und ist dann senkrecht mit sofortigem Aufschlagbrand eingeschlagen. " "I was at the police station Darmstadt today to give my eye-witness report. Just to dispel some speculation here: I live 600 metres south abeam of the westerly threshold of the runway at EDFE. I happened to be in my garden, looking north, as the Epic flew over my house, not more than 100 m high. The machine flew over the village, which normally only the police helicopter is permitted to do, I just called out "emergency landing". The turbine was running, but either it was running rough or had just been throttled back, I could see no smoke or flames. The machine flew with retracted landing gear maybe 600 more metres and turned tightly to the west in what felt like a height of 50 metres. ... I thought (1) this cannot happen and (2) soon there will be a stall. Which happened immediately, the Epic dipped over the left wing, made half a roll downwards (so that I could see the entire bottom of the aircraft) and impacted vertically, immediately followed by an impact fire." Here's the approach chart with the only permitted approach path to 08 for turbine-powered aircraft dotted in red: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2c1844e1f3.png Since the runway is 1400 m long (just under a mile) you can see that it is a very short final approach. I have only ever flown to EDFE in a very slow single-piston aircraft, and mostly to 26, so I imagine it is quite challenging to 08 in a fast turboprop. The blue dashed line west of the Autobahn marks the border of the CTR of Frankfurt/Main EDDF. Being a very high-traffic airport, they don't like infringements at all. So if it was flying over Erzhausen, it was on the correct side of the Autobahn, but still much too far to the east. Many VFR approach and departure routes in Germany follow motorways, because they are very easy to identify, and most of the time the routes are on the right side of the motorway, as is the case here. Approach to 08 is on the eastern side, and departure from 26 is on the western side. Bernd |
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
(Post 10435869)
There have been many witnesses at the airfield, so no shortage of information. Bernd |
Originally Posted by bsieker
(Post 10435891)
I translated the witness report in the other thread and also posted the approach chart with the only permitted approach to 08 for turbine-powered aircraft. It is a very short final.
Bernd |
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
(Post 10435900)
If you measure it you will find it is the standard 0.8 nm ICAO standard. If you mark the final (orange bar) for the arriving traffic, going on the eastern side of the motorway, and copy that mark to the scale at the bottom of the chart, you see that it is only 0.4 NM. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ad3ebe7f6.png And no, the red dotted flight path drawn is wrong, not the path the Epic flew. 3. Approaches in the traffic circuits and departures from the traffic circuits in conjunction with the provisions of the ATZ 3.1 Approaches with jet aircraft and turboprops Approaches with jet aircraft and turboprops are only permitted subject to the following provisions: a) For runway 08: Entry via DELTA along the A5 motorway onto right base of runway 08. b) For runway 26: Entry via YANKEE directly onto final approach. |
At 300 feet per mile profile that is a very tricky approach to fly. You'd need to be based there and do it every day to be proficient.
Noise abatement profiles have a lot to answer for in aircraft accidents. |
Originally Posted by bsieker
(Post 10435961)
only permitted approach to 08 for turbine aircraft.
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Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
(Post 10435985)
Do you really believe in any permissions needed or applicable? If you have read the other thread then you will have seen that I have linked to the Charts, which also include all textual descriptions for the procedures for approaches and departures to and from Egelsbach. Just take a look. I've flown there, I know how it works. In recent years the procedures have been somewhat relaxed, there are now no longer mandatory reporting points (as far as I know, EDFE was the only untowered airfield in Germany to have those), and it was technically inside Frankfurt CTR during the day. That is no longer the case, instead it is now an ATZ/RMZ/TMZ (aerodrome traffic zone, radio mandatory zone, transponder mandataory zone), but the approach and departure routes still apply and must be followed, unless an exception has been granted by Egelsbach INFO explicitly. Bernd |
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