|
BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar
BAW 492 diverted today to Malaga. The video footage is disturbing. Have any one seen something like this, ever before?
Flightradar24 shows the diversion path, but I have no access to vertical profile and speed/bearing. https://www.airlive.net/breaking-vid...-at-gibraltar/ |
|
Wind shear go around as gear down. Perhaps Rotor from the rock. Tricky place to go when it’s windy. |
Also on the airlines and airports BA thread -- but only the clip not the tracks
The winds from the Rock give off rotors - this was quite severe - today strong winds, clear skies warm temps wind was gusting 30 even 40 from the East If it was a technical issue affecting the control the crew would have likely declared that with a pan pan or even a may day |
Things might get worse after Britexit as the Spanish will almost certainly impose airspace restrictions.
|
Interesting approach and angle as seen on the ground by many in Gibraltar. People commenting it did not look good, and was unusual. |
Does anyone think this is some sort of pilot induced oscillation?
|
A short clip from on board:uhoh:
|
Be it pilot induced or Autopilot induced the spoiler movements in that video certainly seem out of phase with the roll, probably adding to the mechanical turbulence off the rock, never a nice approach even in light winds. |
Here's a video from outside:
|
Rotors off the Rock can do that???? |
That doesn't look all too good.
|
Originally Posted by krismiler
(Post 10400071)
Things might get worse after Britexit as the Spanish will almost certainly impose airspace restrictions.
From my apartment in Gib I see this approach on a daily basis. This weekend it was nice to see a Hercules (I think) performing that manoeuvre , but more tightly.. |
IIRC there were a number of incidents of A319/320/321 aircraft entering severe roll oscillation in full config in strong cross wind situations, perhaps late 90's very early 2000's? At least one damaged the wing. They were investigated by more than one XAA and Airbus ordered to roll out compulsory software updates as a fix. Something to do with yaw dampening feedback loop and corresponding spoiler interaction (only in a specific config/set of conditions?) but could be way off on the detail as it was a long time ago... perhaps someone more resourceful than I could find the reports/advisories if of interest.
Whilst rotor/wave and other obstacle-induced turbulent air may have caused an initial upset that led to a go-around, the oscillation seen in the videos is something else entirely, IMV. Happy to be corrected. The OP had the correct verbiage in either case though: disturbing! |
That looks like a flight control malfunction to me. Possibly direct law in roll mode. |
Originally Posted by xcris
(Post 10400040)
BAW 492 diverted today to Malaga. The video footage is disturbing. Have any one seen something like this, ever before?
Flightradar24 shows the diversion path, but I have no access to vertical profile and speed/bearing. https://www.airlive.net/breaking-vid...-at-gibraltar/ |
Looks like the pilot is deflecting the stick far too much in reaction |
I’ll bet this crew never imagined that by the time they got back to base the most interesting part of their day would be all over the web. |
CAP A330
OK I'll bite....:yuk: You have to be smoking your socks. I'm am fairly certain that Gib will be a "Captains Only" landing and for any BA Captain to be over-controlling in direct mode, to that extent, even under those conditions, is not worth a comment. IG |
One's tempted to suggest that it's maybe something to do with an un-noticed control law switch (see section: 4.6) coupled with PIO (pilot induced oscillation) in a high workload (and turbulent) environment?
|
Looking at the on-board clip, I have been on worse landing at NCE. It was sea-sky-sea-sky out the window. Pilot claimed it was wind off the Alps. I've never heard so many people vomiting. However at no time did I feel at risk.
From outside it looks worse! |
The roll rate appeared to be proportional to the visible control surface deflection. In other words, the roll appeared to be commanded, rather than inflicted upon the aircraft from say rotor, as has been suggested, which would be countered by the opposite movement of the control surface from that seen. It would be interesting to learn whether it was intentionally or unintentionally commanded.
Either case would require some explaining, now that this is published for everyone to see, with both inside and outside views confirming the roll commands and the associated quite obvious effects on the aircraft. It seems highly unlikely that it would be commanded by the autopilot. |
Originally Posted by Banana4321
(Post 10400368)
Looking at the on-board clip, I have been on worse landing at NCE. It was sea-sky-sea-sky out the window. Pilot claimed it was wind off the Alps. I've never heard so many people vomiting. However at no time did I feel at risk.
From outside it looks worse! |
Longer clip here, seem to be quite a few cycles.
|
Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 10400389)
|
It’s been a bit windy in Gibraltar lately, but the wind has been from the east, pretty much straigh down the runway. I have never flown there, but I find it strange if that wind direction will create rotors? |
Rotors was my initial suggestion based on altitude wind ( not surface wind), temp/lapse rate and pressure. Now I’m not so convinced. The latest video is somewhat alarming but the problem rectified itself as altitude gained and when abeam the rock, so it could still be a factor. Now I’m thinking some form of FCC error. Worrying . |
Originally Posted by CAP A330
(Post 10400429)
OK, I take it back. This aircraft needs to be grounded ASAP, G-EUUY. Already back in LHR I see.. Could easily be a feedback sensor loop problem causing to aircraft to overshoot on roll. Needs to be investigated ASAP. That guy’s uneasy “hehehe” laughter will haunt me tonight.. Pretty sure most people thought it was game over after the first two rolls. |
Any information on the flight that approached just before or after the incident in question? |
Originally Posted by CAP A330
(Post 10400429)
This aircraft needs to be grounded ASAP, G-EUUY. Already back in LHR I see.. What struck me (from the footage [interior, stbd]) was how quickly the oscillation stopped. Almost as if the guilty logic was taken out of the pipeline and the aircraft returned to doing what it was designed to do with immediate effect. I'm quite convinced that this had nothing to do with rotor or pilot input. I could be wrong. |
Originally Posted by autothrottle
(Post 10400439)
yes....I agree. Normal passengers would gather that rapid , excessive roll cycles is not normal. A few relieved people tonight. |
Just to add to my post#13 this does show the limited airspace allowed by Spain to aircraft using GIB airport Air restrictions imposed by Spain
|
Does one expect the CVR and FDR to be preserved at this time after such an event?
I certainly hope so! |
Could not the explanation be simply that one of the pilots decided to wag the wings from side to side for the hell of it, possibly thinking that the turbulence from the rock would cover their tracks? It must get rather boring flying to the rules - even pilots want to have a bit of fun once in a while..
|
Practicing Dutch Rolls with a full plane of passengers? := |
.........or it could be PIO at a pretty advanced stage. From the video, that is not rotor/ turbulence induced, it continues far higher than any rotor effects coming off the rock would produce. |
Rotor
Looks to be rotor induced, look at the ragged, torn little clouds in the opening shot. The rotor doesn't have to come off the rock, plenty of ridges out there. The go around was a hot mess, was it on auto or PIO? Anyway, I'm sure some PAX became reacquainted with Jesus. |
After looking at the longer passenger footage, it looks to me like it’s the old ‘roll inconsistency in config full’ with “wind peturbation” (or whatever similar quaint phrase Airbus used to use) rearing its ugly head again. I say this because the flaps appear set in the FULL position at the start of the footage. Immediately the roll oscillations stop, you can see that the flaps are in a lower config. Shortly after, the chime of gear retraction can be heard. So I’m guessing that they got a windshear (coincident with the first jolt in the video), then commenced the windshear escape, all the while maintaining the current config. Once out of the shear and on the “go around, flaps” actions, the FCCs resumed their normal behavior. Just my two cents worth. |
And the winner is.... RAD_ALT_ALIVE.
From an inside BA source, that's what happened. |
OK..as a “Boeing person” I’ll ask....what’s the deal with roll inconsistency and “wind perturbation” etc.. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 04:51. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.