Yes, The whole point of the AOC legislation is that passengers are provided protection via legislation. Those who circumvent that safety protection system are criminals, accidents or not.

I have said this earlier and make no apology for repeating it but it’s not the CAA’s job to catch these people, the onus is on the industry. I am currently reading He was the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) regional manager who played a major role in bring the perpetrators of the Rochdale child abuse case to court. When he tried to explain to the community from which most of those convicted came that they must play a part in preventing similar things happening in future he ran into the attitude that “It’s not up to us, it’s the job of the police” This attitude was due in part at least to a distrust of the police, not dissimilar to that expressed in some posts here in respect of the CAA. He had to explain that unless the community played its part, prevention and prosecution was much more difficult. The same principles apply to “grey charters “, everyone knows but no one (very few) are prepared to play an active role in stopping it because it’s the CAA’s job!

Effective enforcement will only be possible if people are prepared to report what they see, hear and otherwise become aware of and then ultimately, be prepared to appear in court and give evidence. Just complaining that “They should do something about it” or “There should be a law against it” or the ultimate excuse for inaction “Is there a petition I can sign” just will not cut it.

YS

"I have said this earlier and make no apology for repeating it but it’s not the CAA’s job to catch these people, the onus is on the industry."
That would be crazy. It isn't the situation in other forms of transport. Roadside checks on commercial vehicles, and port checks on shipping, both for many years now. Perhaps the CAA need Police backup when checking, as with road transport. At least in the UK.

Surely...
 

Hi all

I'm not a commercial pilot (but ex senior airline man with hundreds of hours in single engine aircraft and gliders).

..But surely the point is simply this:

Commercial licences are there for a reason - they indicate to the passenger that a pilot has undergone a higher level of training, so the passenger can choose to make that flight or not.

It's why I – boarding any commercial flight – don't need to ask the pilot if his actual profession is plumbing.

No it’s not that simple which is why Emiliano Sala is dead.
Example:
You have a special birthday treat sightseeing flight arranged for you and paid for by a friend, in an ‘executive’ light aircraft. You turn up and the neatly turned out pilot has four stripes on his shoulders, and the aircraft Navajo (for example) is clean and tidy.

How do you know it’s being run with professional, appropriate licensing?

Precisely - that's why a certain party is facing jail. Hopefully it might deter others.

Sentencing today
 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...trial-21887929

Today we find out how seriously the dangers of Grey Charters are taken

He has been sentenced to 18 months in custody.

YS

But in this country 18 months means he'll be out for next Easter.:yuk:

Interesting to note that his age of 67 was mentioned, hopefully to be taken in mitigation, along with the effect his conviction will have on his family.
Single pilot, public transport with passengers is not allowed over the age of 60. One can only wonder what type of flying he had been doing for the last seven years.
From the evidence found, this was by no means his first offence with regard to aviation and he'd had plenty of time in his past to consider the possibilities and ramifications of eventually being caught out.
I have no sympathy whatsoever.

"Grey Charter" ???????
To me grey means in the middle/ debatable?
This was in no way "grey."
A man running a charter business with no AOC, employing PPL's without ratings, on an American registered aircraft in Europe? What is grey about that?
But yes we found out what the law thinks of these operatations...
18 months?? Are you kidding me? He'll be out just after Christmas. What a joke!
The message this sends to these illegal operations, and there are very many, is carry on... no-one really cares. Shocking!

Perhaps so but he won’t be involved in this sort of business in the future and is unlikely to be welcome around GA airfields. He also faces the prospect of being sued by the families of the victims.

Even 6 months in a jail will be no pleasure trip. Having been chastised rightly so publicly will ensure he doesn't t do this again. These black charters (rather than grey) are despicable. I hope with this court case the CAA will have gained some confidence and will start prosecuting more.

Henderson sentenced to 18 months, to be released on licence after 9 months which is on or about 11 August 2022.

The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.

Given the hassle & legal costs, some might just think twice.
If a hard core exists, the publicity of this tragic accident might deter punters from taking a risk.

And just how aged 67, (single crew operations cease aged 60, multi crew aged 65) was not explored notwithstanding illegal charter in the first place.
CAA intend to revoke his UK CAA licence (subject to appeal process), although given his ‘mental health’ mentioned by his Barrister, a medical certificate might in its own right be an issue?
No word from the FAA about their PPL.

As he is most likely to be sued and made bankrupt, his future is somewhat bleak, even if he does successfully appeal conviction/sentencing.

Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.

Lack of CAA resources seems to mean that only when an accident/incident occurs, do they take action. Would a dedicated CRIMESTOPPERS number help? An email address for reporting does exist.

Which is a shame, especially when they seem to be able to generate the resources to ruthlessly persue someone alleged to have glanced into controlled airspace by 100' or so!

I'm with ShyTorque on this one (post 2329)...and happyjack (post 2330). Meanwhile, I note from the BBC's online news report: "Henderson was supposed to fly the plane, but was on holiday with his wife in Paris, so asked Mr Ibbotson to do the journey." If that is true, I am truly astounded as to the leniency of an 18month sentence, especially given - as has been pointed out above - Britain's overflowing jail system will almost certainly lead to jail time no longer than half that handed down, at most. And Henderson was a former RAF officer, according to the news trail? If that, too, is fact, now would be the time for a shaming 'distancing' statement from H.M.'s military regarding such crap practice...excuse my language, Your Majesty. At the end of all of this sad, sorry tale someone is going to need to inject some confidence that improvement has resulted. The courts just failed to deliver on that one, those involved will run a mile away, the enforcement authorities will drift back into nonchalance like before, former military bosses will fail to condemn one of their own, and the 'grey' fraternity will continue like nothing ever happened... "Sala, who?" The lamentable truth looks to me that only carbon monoxide caught us all out this once, and that precisely nothing will really change as a result. That, my friends, will likely be the ultimate outcome. I take no pleasure in stating as much.

Henderson was in the RAF for about 2 years as a trainee navigator but left before qualifying for reasons which are best described as ‘vague’ ; didn’t like the lifestyle. Uhm!

I think many of us would be pretty p’d off if “H.M. Military” started commenting on something we had done twenty, thirty or even more years after we’d chucked in our ID as we left the premises for the last time.

According to some sources (upthread if I remember correctly, certainly from elsewhere) he was an officer relatively briefly and a long time ago, but it seems to be an “angle” the press were fond of.

Edit to add: slow typing, I see parkfell has filled in some of the gaps…

I think this (and it's like) needs calling a 'Black Charter' operation; it was several large steps away from either Safe OR Legal

I suspect that because this was a ‘first’ offence that’s why the sentence is less than we may have thought was likely. CPS/CAA probably had enough meat on the bone in the background for this prosecution to proceed.

I believe Murgatroyd had previous convictions hence a harsher sentence in his accident case as he hadn’t changed his ways.

Hear , Hear , Should have been 18 years.....

Emiliano Sala: David Henderson jailed for organising flight
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59251852

BBC News

That is all true, but regardless of his misdemeanour any legal pilot could/would have succumbed to CO incapacitation.
What I don't perceive in all the concentration commenting and dealing with one man's crime is anything directed at maintenance. Either via the written procedures which may not call for CO leak inspection, or perhaps the organisation responsible for maintenance which at best failed to see incipient exhaust leaks.
No leaks and we'd not have heard of the ancillary crime !

Question re Carbon monoxide poisoning.

Does it cause gradual incapacitation, as apparently Dave Ibbo was talking to ATC quite coherently until very shortly before the crash?

Yes, CO displaces oxygen in your blood, so your blood cannot effectively carry oxygen to where it needs to be in your body. Slow, and un noticed incapacitation, fatal if patient not given fresh air/oxygen in time.

Even the best of maintenance cannot catch leaks before they occur. The noise heard on the previous leg could have been the cracking of the exhaust, though that is unlikely. Only good continuous maintenance plus adequate monitors are a safeguard. One of the concerns in this aircraft's operation was that as an N registered aircraft it was not subject to the same rules & oversight as UK registered machines, Good maintenance to US standards would of course be fine, but was it done? Operations that are shoestrings or working illegally may not be as rigorous. as they should. This gentleman was only one part of a very dubious chain. Will the others be dealt with?

Completely concur. Fingers crossed this accident and it associated coverage will lead to a comprehensive review of the regulation of these so-called "grey charters. Hopefully one which will close the regulatory loopholes which currently exist.

I don't see any regulatory loop holes Richard, it's just a case of catching the transgressors, a bit like those speedsters on the freeway, the rules are there, you just need to catch them and put them in front of the courts.

The Regulations need to be reviewed with consideration given to include those paying for “Grey Charters” to be guilty of an offence.

If the law was retrospective (not that I am suggesting it should be in this case) then the football agents etc asking for these cut price flights would get their collars felt as well.

Where these individuals oblivious to the regulations?
A forensic examination of Henderson’s transactions may well be revealing.

As for the Coroner’s Inquest in February 2022, that is likely to confine itself to the circumstances surrounding the deaths on board the fatal aircraft crash.
The AAIB report with Inspector will feature heavily.
As it is not a Public Inquiry, wider aspects are unlikely to be examined.

We would disagree there Megan, but hopefully only on a point of semantics. :)

I come from a school of thought that says that leisure flying and commercial flying should kept 100% separate and regulations should be in place to prevent any overlap and substantially inhibit any "tinkering" with the rules. Anyone who has been around GA for any length of time will know exactly where the grey areas are. Other than a long life long interest in flight safety lingering from a 30 year professional career in aviation, I have no dog in the fight, so I'll refrain from details...there are commercial operators who no doubt will have more to say. Indeed some already are (my bold):

...May not capture the problem. Person needs to go from A to B, preferably direct, with few if any stops and public exposure/delay. Person's person knows a guy, and makes a call. A "private" [looking] airplane appears, and person gets from A to B (most times). If person's person called a different guy, a different plane and pilot would have appeared, but person's person knew this guy.

I entirely agree that chisel charters have no place in our industry, and should be stopped. As said, 100% distinction between private and commercial air transport. But, as long as the entirely unknowing public person, knows "a guy", the ONLY check in the system will be is that guy honest enough to say "sorry, I can't help you, I won't fly for hire, you should call this charter operator.". If person's person's were being diligently directed to charter operators for charter flights by the "guys" in the grey zone of our industry, this would not be a problem. But in this scenario, person public is extremely poorly informed to decide for themself what service to accept, and what service to decline.

Sure, if someone turned up in a ratty 172 wearing a T shirt, person might think twice, but a Malibu is a convincing type for a "professional" seeming trip, and if the pilot is wearing striped epaulets on a white shirt, it probably seals the deal with no further consideration....

Yes, but the "many of us" are not relying in a court on this as some sort of accolade. The implication, because it's not stated otherwise, and to those not digging any further, is that he was a qualified air force pilot from those times - which is clearly not the case, and the RAF should put the media straight.

If Cardiff FC had their own aircraft, with professional pilots as employees, then no one would question the out and back to Nantes preferably multi crewed in say a Kingair or something similar. Something which the Clubs and others now appreciate.

The Big Brother option to monitor all flight plans for ‘unusual activity’ in real time.
Where a flight plan is not filed, the aerodrome movement log will reveal details including destination although not in real time. Big brother would require details to be passed to them on departure, of those aircraft with ‘markers’ [ANPR concept] on them. Certainty onerous on the aerodrome authority?

Agent provocateur technique to catch those “at it” probably a set too far?

HMRC pay informants where undeclared tax is collected from tax payers.

Might the CAA consider such a similar scheme?
Some thought provoking comments would come as no surprise…

I’m not sure MOD has the manpower to go around putting the media straight about the service history of every ex-service man or woman that ends up in court…

In the context of this case TBH I’m not sure anybody much cared about his background and I doubt at this stage in proceedings the RAF putting anybody “straight” would be noticed by the MSM, let alone be published.

It’s much more important that people realise there’s a difference between a PPL and a commercial license, and hopefully the coverage did ensure “many of us” are now fully aware of that.

The judge's sentencing remarks have now been published:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...s-12.11.21.pdf

He is sentenced for offences around endangering the aircraft but not for the consequences. He is described as a an experienced Commercial Pilot but so far as I can see no mention is made of the RAF - presumably that point came out in wider evidence during the trial.

Read in its own terms the note is a pretty damning indictment of Henderson and his attitude to operating charters of this type. Ibbotson's failings had been flagged for him by another passenger and by the fact that there had been MOR's regarding (1) an infringement of controlled airspace and (b) runway infringements while taxying.

Thanks for that Airbanda, v v interesting to read those remarks in full as you say, pretty damning….

"fatal if patient not given fresh air/oxygen in time."
It's worse than that. Two workmen in Edinburgh were exposed to CO, were able to leave and drive away, but both died. Blood has permanently lost O2 transport ability, and hospital care would be needed, but might not be enough. It's not just anoxia.

Alternative (partial) solution to 'more policing' ?
 

The issue of lack of enforcement of current rules in the UK has been highlighted in many posts.

The remedies mentioned have almost invariably related to better policing of these rules.

Might I suggest an alternative, which whilst certainly not covering all eventualities would, I believe, have the virtue of closing down major segments of this dangerous black market in air transport.

Emiliano Salas was being transferred between Nantes and Cardiff City, the latter then playing in the English Premier League (despite the obvious geographical anomoly.)

Why do the authorities (sic) in this case the CAA, though possibly including both the Air Charter Association and BALPA, not approach the Premiership to establish a code of practice which specifically outlaws the use of aircraft and pilots which are not on the official register by their players or club officials?


My knowledge of the air transport industry is next to non-existent but horse racing also appears at times to be heavily dependent on these cowboy operators, so why not approach them too?

Could the Premiership or the British Horse Racing Authority in current circumstances really fail to respond positively to such an approach?

I suggest not.

Honest question Richard, what regulatory loop holes do you feel need to be closed?

Owner rents his aircraft to a customer, then flies the aircraft for free..... On a PPL?