Severe turbulence LHR-SIN. One dead.
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23rd May 2024, 18:59
As my career approached retirement in intensive European short-haul ops I saw an ever increasing unwillingness in otherwise superbly trained and eminently capable-as-trained FOs to dim the lighting at night to a sensible degree - as time went on more and more expected (few ever asked) to have lighting in full bright which totally prevents any situational awareness outside. OK, I'm Old School, taught that when night flying cockpit illumination should be reduced to the minimum level to permit clear reading of instruments. The reposte (as if FOs ever dared a riposte to their Captain's reasonable request when I was an FO) was always "But we're IFR! There's no need to look outside" (as if their £150K zero to hero training had endowed them with the inate ability to outsmart a decades-experienced Captain). I was very well aware that 'airmanship' had become a swearword and thus all but eradicated in that company as it implied a degree of independent thought and judgement, something I'd always believed a fundamental and essential quality in an aviator - but which was at total variance with the required rigid diktat of slavish and invariable adherence to SOPs, but having avoided various unwanted encounters with nebulous areas of sky with stars obscured over the Pyrenees and Caucuses over the years due to retaining a modicum night vision I disagreed, to the obvious discomfort of some of the uber-slavishly SOP compliant FOs. It is possible that this insistence of dazzling light levels at night was related to the ever increasing expectation that the reading of books/novels/magazines and fiddling on personal tablets that they felt was so normal it wasn't necessary to even ask the Capt if it was OK...I even had FOs trying to watch videos, and then showing indignation when disabused of the idea! (A serious concern, as the behaviour of FOs naturally tends to reflect the lead given them by Captains...) Equally the "Why on earth, we're in IFR, we must save fuel" was frequently touted to defend an insistence to switch off landing/turnoff/taxi lights in even the London TMA according to the company accountant's-led dogma - as "no one needs to look outside"!
I wonder if any of this might have been a factor?
Further, my only encounter with severe turbulence in 25+ years of jet airline flying was descending to a cleared FL150 over the Jura Alps into GVA while avoiding nearby weather returns and a huge - evidently skyward-racing- return just burst onto the radar three or four miles ahead, went flashng magenta instantly and the impact felt like a car crash. There was no question of controlling airspeed (which was making such extreme excursions I had to ignore it) , rate of descent or climb were irrelevent, all I could do was try to keep pitch and roll attitude in some sort of credible regime and wait for it to stop. It was quiteb literally like flying the 737 in a washing machine. Thank God the cabin was already secure . After - I don't actually know - maybe 20-30 seconds I became aware of the FO urgently calling "altitude bust" (among other things) and we regained control at FL125. I consider myself a pretty capable and assertive stick and rudder man and not shy of aggressive handling when required but this was way beyond any human capability. GVA approach (bless'em) must have been used to this sort of event as they just asked if we were OK and continued to vector us in as usual.
Just saying that such events can overtake anyone - and coping with it satisfactorily may well be beyond any pilot's ability. The forces Nature can call to bear on us are well able to totally overwhelm control over our craft, though thankfully modern airframes are ever better at absorbing such punishment even if the occupants aren't.
But the lookout thing/awareness, even on long sectors in the cruise, especially in active tropical met is surely a matter for serious and widespread consideration.
I wonder if any of this might have been a factor?
Further, my only encounter with severe turbulence in 25+ years of jet airline flying was descending to a cleared FL150 over the Jura Alps into GVA while avoiding nearby weather returns and a huge - evidently skyward-racing- return just burst onto the radar three or four miles ahead, went flashng magenta instantly and the impact felt like a car crash. There was no question of controlling airspeed (which was making such extreme excursions I had to ignore it) , rate of descent or climb were irrelevent, all I could do was try to keep pitch and roll attitude in some sort of credible regime and wait for it to stop. It was quiteb literally like flying the 737 in a washing machine. Thank God the cabin was already secure . After - I don't actually know - maybe 20-30 seconds I became aware of the FO urgently calling "altitude bust" (among other things) and we regained control at FL125. I consider myself a pretty capable and assertive stick and rudder man and not shy of aggressive handling when required but this was way beyond any human capability. GVA approach (bless'em) must have been used to this sort of event as they just asked if we were OK and continued to vector us in as usual.
Just saying that such events can overtake anyone - and coping with it satisfactorily may well be beyond any pilot's ability. The forces Nature can call to bear on us are well able to totally overwhelm control over our craft, though thankfully modern airframes are ever better at absorbing such punishment even if the occupants aren't.
But the lookout thing/awareness, even on long sectors in the cruise, especially in active tropical met is surely a matter for serious and widespread consideration.
Severe turbulence - 1 dead pax
https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-multiple-injured-after-severe-turbulence-on-london-heathrow-to-singapore-flight-13140639
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BBC coverage:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8889d7x8j4o
One passenger has been killed and more than 30 others others injured on a Singapore Airlines flight from London to Singapore hit by severe turbulence.
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It’s why you keep your belt on but you still have to move around the cabin occasionally and the CC even more so. I don’t think it’s that unusual to have injures, but a death is rare I would think, but could be cardiac related I suppose. RIP
Regards
Mr Mac
Regards
Mr Mac
This would be a long, LONG flight without a toilet break or without food. The deceased could be pax or crew. The seatbelt sign may have been illuminated or it may not. Bit early for this reaction in my view.
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It will be interesting to get a fuller picture on this incident.. Of course you could be seated and strapped in and somebody else not and they get tossed in to you - or heavy item slam into your neck or head .. The human body isn't very resistant alas. Thoughts to all involved and the family of the deceased. And a reminder the risks cabin crew have to take when theyre going up and down the plane checking people are belted in.
I’ve got the impression over the years that people have generally got the message about keeping belts fastened when possible, but there will be the odd outlier and of course as others have said there are times, especially on long flights, when you just have to leave your seat.
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Many times over the years I have wondered what aviation would look like if clear air turbulence was frequently unsurvivable. It seems an extraordinary coincidence that the worst CAT normally encountered lies within human tolerance.
Had CAT been worse than that historically, would aviation have ever developed? Are these increasingly dangerous incidents the new norm with global warming? Could aviation become so dangerous as to become unviable?
Greta might be rubbing her hands with glee. Not at the fatalities and injuries, obviously, but at the prospect of an aviation industry where people are too frightened to fly.
Of course, this incident might simply have been caused by pilots inadvertently flying into a detectable CB. Let's wait and see.
Had CAT been worse than that historically, would aviation have ever developed? Are these increasingly dangerous incidents the new norm with global warming? Could aviation become so dangerous as to become unviable?
Greta might be rubbing her hands with glee. Not at the fatalities and injuries, obviously, but at the prospect of an aviation industry where people are too frightened to fly.
Of course, this incident might simply have been caused by pilots inadvertently flying into a detectable CB. Let's wait and see.
Three threads on this running now.
I try to hold things as long as absolutely possible, but more than once on Korean particularly I have finally made my way aft, only to hear the "Return to seats" and seeing cabin staff motioning me back to my seat ASAP. I'm bursting! Aaaarrrggghhh..................
Sometimes the light can stay on for 30 mins or more.
I try to hold things as long as absolutely possible, but more than once on Korean particularly I have finally made my way aft, only to hear the "Return to seats" and seeing cabin staff motioning me back to my seat ASAP. I'm bursting! Aaaarrrggghhh..................
Sometimes the light can stay on for 30 mins or more.
Psychophysiological entity
"The passengers are unstrapping themselves so they can kneel and pray." From my night to remember back in the pre-radar 60's. Blood and sick dripping from the ceiling.
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I was alerted to this by my French news feed: Is this a sensitive time of year for the ICZ?
Many times over the years I have wondered what aviation would look like if clear air turbulence was frequently unsurvivable. It seems an extraordinary coincidence that the worst CAT normally encountered lies within human tolerance.
Had CAT been worse than that historically, would aviation have ever developed? Are these increasingly dangerous incidents the new norm with global warming? Could aviation become so dangerous as to become unviable?
Greta might be rubbing her hands with glee. Not at the fatalities and injuries, obviously, but at the prospect of an aviation industry where people are too frightened to fly.
Of course, this incident might simply have been caused by pilots inadvertently flying into a detectable CB. Let's wait and see.
Had CAT been worse than that historically, would aviation have ever developed? Are these increasingly dangerous incidents the new norm with global warming? Could aviation become so dangerous as to become unviable?
Greta might be rubbing her hands with glee. Not at the fatalities and injuries, obviously, but at the prospect of an aviation industry where people are too frightened to fly.
Of course, this incident might simply have been caused by pilots inadvertently flying into a detectable CB. Let's wait and see.
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I was on a 777-300ER from the UK to DXB a few days ago. The fasten seatbelt signs remained on for around 2 hours mid-flight, however there was no turbulence experienced. Realising this, many passengers ignored the signs and wandered around, leading to the crew having to tell people to sit down, constantly, and move people away from the toilets. What these passengers don't realise is that the pilot may have had informaiton from aircraft ahead that they had experienced turbulence so the seatbelt signs were activated.
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Well, that's all simply communication. The flightdeck crew could have simply informed their passengers of the reason to have the seatbelt sign on, That said, there are people that are medically unable to go without a restroom for two hours.
I must admit this was one of my first thoughts when my wife read it out from an online news feed. Afaik, severe weather in the ICZ is normally associated with the Monsoon season which according to the Nat Geo website is from April to September so I guess that could be so.
I was on a 777-300ER from the UK to DXB a few days ago. The fasten seatbelt signs remained on for around 2 hours mid-flight, however there was no turbulence experienced. Realising this, many passengers ignored the signs and wandered around, leading to the crew having to tell people to sit down, constantly, and move people away from the toilets. What these passengers don't realise is that the pilot may have had informaiton from aircraft ahead that they had experienced turbulence so the seatbelt signs were activated.