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Four dead in Austrian crash

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Four dead in Austrian crash

Old 26th Nov 2023, 07:34
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Four dead in Austrian crash

Saturday November 25th around mid-day a small plane crashed on the Kasberg mountain, near Grünau iim Almtal (70 km E Salzburg ). Rescuers reached the plane in the afternoon and found all four occupants dead. No further details except that it is believed the flight started outside Austria.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/l...31125-99-74447

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 26th Nov 2023 at 08:14.
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Old 26th Nov 2023, 08:12
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ASN reckons a German-registered Commander 112.
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Old 26th Nov 2023, 09:23
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Accident Rockwell Commander 112B D-ELPO, (aviation-safety.net)

to save you looking it up.
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Old 26th Nov 2023, 14:43
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In one of the Austrian news articles mentioned by ASN ,someone says the flight was VFR , If correct , flying VFR in the Alps this week end with the current weather we experience was definitively a very bad idea.
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 05:50
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
In one of the Austrian news articles mentioned by ASN ,someone says the flight was VFR , If correct , flying VFR in the Alps this week end with the current weather we experience was definitively a very bad idea.
I am located somewhat to the west of this accident site, but with a good view of the Alps.
The weather system that passed through here on Friday evening into the early hours of Saturday was pretty active, with strong W-SW gusts, reduced visibility, and snow showers.

Not a good time to be over the mountains at low level in a non de-iced airframe.

TR
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 09:15
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Flight seems to begin from somewhere SW of Prague.

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao...=1&trackLabels
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 09:30
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
Flight seems to begin from somewhere SW of Prague.
There are lenghty discussions about it in other aviation forums. The flight seems to have been some kind of private cost-sharing flight from Pribram (Czech) to Pula (Croatia) openly advertised in social media ( ) - can be translated by Google if necessary.
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 09:53
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Oh dear...
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 13:33
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I have been trained for the mountain rating in France at aeroclub Chambéry 15 years ago, and have been crossing the alps many times since. Nothwistanding I got caught one day......

Once the sky was blue and clear and it was in summer, But I did not pay attention to the few lenticular clouds aloft. Mortal danger,as I was going to experience, ferocious winds at altitude with updrafts, downdrafts and rotors, while down below it was a calm summer day..

Crossing from Annecy (France) to Aosta (Italy) along the small "St Bernard pass" via St. Gervais, Megčve, Cormayeur, west of the Mont Blanc.
Around 9'500 feet QNH, with about 1000 ft separtion from the uneven ground below. with peaks all around which is standard route along the valley, unless one wants to cross east of the Mont Blanc at the same height, via the Grand St Bernard pass when departing from Switzerland on the east side of Leman lake.

I was in a Cap10 alone. As soon as I reached high terrain on my route to the east, I got shaken so much that I lost all control of the aircraft, nothing I could do but wait, going back was not an option I was committed; And it was like 25 minutes in a tumbler; I eventually landed in Aosta with my legs shaking so much I could barely control the rudder on final and taxiing, white as an aspirin, glad the aircraft was stressed to +6 -.4 G's and I had a 5 point harness-. Happy to be alive.

Lesson learned, never cross or overfly a mountainous ridge in a GA aircraft with winds aloft, do your homework, always check your weather, lenticulars may not be there to warn you...I should have known..

At the time of the accident of the Commander D-ELPO , west-southwesternly winds were blowing.all over western europe and lasted a few days,
The pilot must have had a hint that it was not totally safe, as reading from the Google translation in the link provided above, he added that he had an "autopilot" as if that could be of comfort to unaware passengers let alone the pilot. RIP,
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 18:15
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The Alps has caught out a few experienced pilots. Neil Williams being one.
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 18:31
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
The Alps has caught out a few experienced pilots. Neil Williams being one.
It was the Sierra de Guadarrama north of Madrid that caught Williams out.
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Old 27th Nov 2023, 20:56
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Quite.
Having read the facebook pages and local media referred to in the later posts, one can only draw one rather disturbing conclusion.
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Old 28th Nov 2023, 09:52
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If what is written on FB and in the Austrian newspapers is correct and he flew VFR and really took 3 paying pax with him ,then most probably lawsuits are coming. And the sad thing with that is that his family beside having lost a loved one will now be involved in trials and night lose their savings and even house in the end. We have a case currently dragging on in one of my flying clubs. People should also think about consequences for their families when they do things like this .
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Old 28th Nov 2023, 09:58
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The departure would take place on Saturday 25 November and the return on Sunday 26 November.
We will fly to the ancient city of Pula, which is located on the southern tip of the Istrian peninsula in Croatia. Along the way, we will see the Czech castles of Orlík and Hluboka nad Vltavou, as well as the Temelín power plant. In Austria it will be Linz and then we will climb over the Alps. We will see the Dachstein glacier or the Slovenian Mangart and the Triglav nature park. We will slowly descend, fly past Trieste in Italy and then through Koper, Izola and Portorož. During the landing, the ancient city of Pula and the world-famous amphitheater will be beautifully visible. We will stay in Pula and see the city. I feel at home in Croatia, so the program will be 🙂
Departing on Sunday afternoon, we will be refueling en route, so we will make a stopover either in Portorož or at Bled High Mountain Airport in the Slovenian Alps. There is a great restaurant at Bled airport, where we can treat ourselves to the famous mushroom soup.
Depart from Příbram and return there as well. Commander 112B aircraft, avionics for all-weather flights, autopilot. I will explain everything, participating in the flight is a must! 🙂 I can take a maximum of three passengers, the ticket per head is CZK 7,500 when the entire plane is occupied. In total, 2.5 hours in the air, I calculate that there will be a layover, as I wrote above, so each passenger will take a turn at the wheel.


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Old 28th Nov 2023, 10:48
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Also, the Commander 112, a fairly heavy airframe, with a Lycoming IO-360, doesn't exactly have an abundance of excess horsepower at sea level, and even more anemic at higher altitudes.
RIP.
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Old 28th Nov 2023, 12:37
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Czk 7500 is roughly 300 euro, times 3 = 900 for a 2,5 h flight definitively goes beyond the EASA cost sharing ruling so it was a commercial flight, . hopefully the guy had a CPL otherwise one more lawsuit..
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 11:48
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
Czk 7500 is roughly 300 euro, times 3 = 900 for a 2,5 h flight definitively goes beyond the EASA cost sharing ruling so it was a commercial flight, . hopefully the guy had a CPL otherwise one more lawsuit..
If it was a commercial flight or operation, he should had operated under an AOC wich i really doubt.
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 14:38
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
Czk 7500 is roughly 300 euro, times 3 = 900 for a 2,5 h flight definitively goes beyond the EASA cost sharing ruling so it was a commercial flight, . hopefully the guy had a CPL otherwise one more lawsuit..
Looking at the distance between Pribram in Czechia and Pula in Croatia, I would imagine that it would be around 2.5hrs each way for an a/c of that type, so a total of 5hrs, plus a planned stopover.
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 15:28
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According to foreflight it’s just under 300 nautical miles from Pribram to Pula. If you include landing fees parking etc then cost sharing doesn’t seem implausible. On the other hand I was driving from Austria through the Czech republic by chance at around that time and whilst there was the odd patch of blue sky I would say VFR flight was very optimistic in the prevailing snow showers. Maybe he had an instrument rating but a flight in such wintery conditions would have been very challenging.

Last edited by lederhosen; 29th Nov 2023 at 15:45.
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 16:25
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No way to cross the alps under the prevailing conditions of strong wind overcast clouds closing the valleys and freezing temperatures, It was a no go for any GA piston aircraft even in IFR. How did the pilot dare to plan such a flight I really cannot understand. The cost sharing requested was more than reasonable I doubt there will be a problem there.
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