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Never stop short of the gate!

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Never stop short of the gate!

Old 11th Nov 2023, 17:41
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Never stop short of the gate!

Hard to imagine they did not see the truck or feel the impact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m5...ature=youtu.be
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Old 11th Nov 2023, 21:01
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Some pilots like to look straight ahead while approaching a turn and then maybe do a quick look in the direction where they are turning. In reality, the pilot should lean forward and look both beside and behind prior to the start of the turn and keep looking in that manner during the turn.

As for the vehicle driver: When there is an aircraft taxiing alongside you like this, it is a very good idea to take looks at the gates for marshallers about to wave in an aircraft as you drive along.

I like how the vehicle continued on behind the aircraft while it was still taxiing in with engines running. Hopefully, he is looking for a new job.
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Old 11th Nov 2023, 23:10
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I don't think they use marshallers at Stansted. Most stands have AGNIS or similar. Not been there for about 18 years though.
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Old 11th Nov 2023, 23:50
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There's often something to indicate than a stand is active - aircraft starting or about to push or enter the stand - important for drivers to look out for. As are speed limits and aircraft.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 01:53
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Surely the pilots should be looking at the Marshallers only. Aren’t they the ones in charge at this point?
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 06:07
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Originally Posted by Race200
Surely the pilots should be looking at the Marshallers only. Arenít they the ones in charge at this point?
One is taxiing but both are on the lookout for situational awareness. Clear left/right is not something we just jabble for the sake of it.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 19:16
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I believe the stand concerned has Safedock Visual Docking Guidance System (VDGS) so no marshaller involved.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 19:59
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Originally Posted by Race200
Surely the pilots should be looking at the Marshallers only. Arenít they the ones in charge at this point?
No, responsibility remains with the commander.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 21:02
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Surely a few taxi cameras wouldn't go amiss? If they can put them on a Tesla or BMW, you'd think Boeing could manage it...
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 21:15
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I feel vulnerable changing direction by a large amount when taxying as even with my face pressed against the side window I canít see the wingtips, which is true for quite a lot of aircraft. Yes, you always expect the unexpected but it would be interesting to know at what point the RHS occupant might have seen the oncoming vehicle, assuming they actually could at all...
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 21:36
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When I did my airfield driving course about 14 years ago now, I was taught that moving aircraft always had priority, and that if one was moving in your vicinity, you stopped until it had passed, and that you should only pass behind one when the anti-colls weren't operating.
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Old 12th Nov 2023, 23:54
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FW, on the video the van comes into camera view at 6 secs,as the a/c turns,and is a bit,in front of the a/c nose line.Collision occurs at 11-12 secs.Time for both `drivers/co` to have seen each other,and stopped..
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 09:09
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100% down to the truck driver - Captain would have been looking left and ahead towards the centreline and quidance system. The fact the driver tries to reverse is a bit of a clue !
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 12:28
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Originally Posted by beamer
100% down to the truck driver - Captain would have been looking left and ahead towards the centreline and quidance system. The fact the driver tries to reverse is a bit of a clue !
The first officer is supposed to look to the right and should look behind. Also, the pilot not taxiing should have feet ready to immediately apply brakes faster than one can say I Have Control.

The truck driver should be driving in such a manner that he is monitoring the aircraft and its progress and the gates for likelihood of a turn-in. If it is moving fast and able to easily pull ahead then let it do so. If it is moving slow, then carefully move ahead at the appropriate time.

The reality is that based on my experience as a ground crew and a pilot, neither of these are trained. Like so many other things, common sense is an important factor in hiring to try and overcome this type of situation(and many others) but difficult to analyze.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 13:33
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I only know airport apron driving rules demanding all vehicles airside have to yield to aircraft at any time. Cars have to slow down or stop whenever aircraft move. This is why the truck driver is to blame.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 13:58
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Years of operating into CDG taught me to assume that a service vehicle would try to dart in front of you, way, way to close; especially those little cars with dispatch personell on board. ASR after ASR made no difference at all. I have performed what a driving examiner would call, "an emergency stop," more than once. I have no idea if it's still like that but as a cutural issue, I imagine so.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 14:29
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
I only know airport apron driving rules demanding all vehicles airside have to yield to aircraft at any time. Cars have to slow down or stop whenever aircraft move. This is why the truck driver is to blame.
And you never, ever, EVER drive behind an aircraft whose beacon is flashing! (Referring to what the driver did after the collision.)

And then the idiot in the high profile vehicle drives right behind the arriving aircraft? Engines running? Beacon flashing?
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 07:44
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In respect of "Never Stop Short of the Gate", can you explain the meaning of that comment? The aircraft at the point of turning into the gate has presumably got AGNIS or other indication that the gate is open. They have passed the vehicle, and when they commence the turn, they are clear of traffic. The vehicle continues to enter the ramp area in front of the gate, and does so behind the forward view of the FO. A very diligent FO may continue to monitor the vehicle to ensure that the vehicle has not infringed the ramp, but I am trying hard to recall too many FOs or even captains that would take that level of caution, once they were in front of the gate and had no obstacle between them and their parking spot. Should it be done? Sure. Does it get done? My observation doing checks and evaluations is, less often than desired, and there is a potential expectation of success that grows over time, not quite a normalisation of deviation, you just don't often get vehicles that fail to obey their obligations.

The design of ramps opens up opportunities for these events, hard to blame the flight crew in this case, and probably misguided to blame the vehicle driver for a lousy concept of access. Our airports are designed by klutzes, to be a damned mess. Blaming the operators for bad design hardly improves the outcome, it is akin to the adage that beatings will continue until morale improves.

There are airports where traffic only flows normally on the terminal side of the bays, with access to the bay only from that point.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 15:37
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As someone who was trained to drive airside, and had to pass an airside driving test, I fail to see how this can be blamed on anyone BUT the truck driver. He literally saw a 737 overtake him. It turned right on to the stand, crossing his path. He saw it!! As other posters have said, ground vehicles ALWAYS give way to aircraft. I can't really tell from the video but his speed looks high. And another thing; if you are involved in an accident you do not move the vehicle unless it is causing an immediate obstruction. Ya certainly don't drive it behind an aircraft moving under its own power because of the jet blast!
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 16:12
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Originally Posted by NWSRG
Surely a few taxi cameras wouldn't go amiss? If they can put them on a Tesla or BMW, you'd think Boeing could manage it...
Where, in the cockpit would you put the monitors, especially in the small '73 cockpit? It was hard enough to find a space for the cockpit door camera monitor(s), and the EFBs on some types. Then you have visibility issues with television screens, both in bright daylight and night time.

You need both pairs of eyes outside while taxiing, especially when turning, e.g. onto stand.

We once had a handling agent who thought it was OK to drive one handed on public roads holding and using his phone while driving crews to security......
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