Tui runway excursion at Leeds Bradford 20/10/23
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I often wonder about the detrimental effect of tyre rubber (scrubbed off by landing aircraft) has on braking action especially in wet conditions. A quick look on Google earth confirms there could be significant rubber laid down in the area the aircraft came off. Researching “Airfield Rubber Removal” on Wikipedia gives some interesting reading. I wonder if LBA have a rubber removal program?
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To be fair the circumstances are very different. That was a pilot cocking uo his 180 and putting gear on the grass, LBA is a plane that has either been blown off the runway, or the pilot made a conscious decision to dive off the hard stuff...
There’ll have been a lot of TUI and Jet2 mates running PERF calcs with the METAR for their interest over the last couple of days, that’s for sure. Not a nice day in the office for the crew, but learnings will be made available in due course.
Last edited by pug; 22nd Oct 2023 at 19:36.
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Part of a day, on the back of LBA-ABZ-LBA.
(One of the fun bits was going from dispatchers with Yorkshire, to Aberdonian, to Yorkshire, to West Country accents and back within a few hours! Oh, and the weather at each end and in between could be 'fun' too!)
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I wonder if there is going to be any parallel between this incident and the AirUk F27 incident at Guernsey, both having gone off the runway in very wet and windy conditions:
"Averaging wind indication systems" having replaced "traditional display equipment giving instantaneous readings" (see that AAIB Report, page 11) has limited ATC's ability to give information that could be extremely important/valuable to the pilots on the approach in such conditions. I remember having a discussion with ATCs who were unhappy with the information that they could give being limited in this way... and that was a short while before that F27 went off that runway. So, as with the F27 incident, was the wind information available to the pilots (and available to ATC to give to the pilots) the actual wind when they landed? Especially if it was really gusty? Are pilots all aware of this situation with available wind information? From that F27 AAIB report "The commander could not have known the local wind conditions affecting the aircraft at the time of touchdown". The reports given to him on the approach (the last being 19 seconds before touchdown) were all within the aeroplane's crosswind limits. However, anemometer recordings showed that the wind gusted more than the aeroplane's crosswind limits around the time of touchdown. Was it similar here? I await the AAIB Report with interest.
I was briefing a student about crosswind limits just last Tuesday...!
"Averaging wind indication systems" having replaced "traditional display equipment giving instantaneous readings" (see that AAIB Report, page 11) has limited ATC's ability to give information that could be extremely important/valuable to the pilots on the approach in such conditions. I remember having a discussion with ATCs who were unhappy with the information that they could give being limited in this way... and that was a short while before that F27 went off that runway. So, as with the F27 incident, was the wind information available to the pilots (and available to ATC to give to the pilots) the actual wind when they landed? Especially if it was really gusty? Are pilots all aware of this situation with available wind information? From that F27 AAIB report "The commander could not have known the local wind conditions affecting the aircraft at the time of touchdown". The reports given to him on the approach (the last being 19 seconds before touchdown) were all within the aeroplane's crosswind limits. However, anemometer recordings showed that the wind gusted more than the aeroplane's crosswind limits around the time of touchdown. Was it similar here? I await the AAIB Report with interest.
I was briefing a student about crosswind limits just last Tuesday...!
I love the ‘holier than thou’ comments from one or two professional colleagues.
In 8000 hrs of airline flying, the roughest approach I have ever had - anywhere on the planet - was into LBA. We were the last crew daft enough to land that day, and it’s right up there with Kabul & Kathmandu as a place I never, ever want to go back to.
It doesn’t matter how good you are: LBA on a nasty day could catch out the world’s greatest SkyGod.
In 8000 hrs of airline flying, the roughest approach I have ever had - anywhere on the planet - was into LBA. We were the last crew daft enough to land that day, and it’s right up there with Kabul & Kathmandu as a place I never, ever want to go back to.
It doesn’t matter how good you are: LBA on a nasty day could catch out the world’s greatest SkyGod.
"Recommended by ICAO Annex 14, airports should develop a disabled aircraft recovery plan." As I recall the responsibility for recovery rested with the Airport and Owner, though the Airport could take the lead and in the incidents we experienced, the Fire services were initially in command, as our over eager CEO was to find out.
As part of the management of the maintenance facility at an international Airport, we were required to participate in the aircraft recovery meetings.
Lists were made of heavy crane operators in near vicinity and the nearest stored air bag systems, if none were on the aerodrome, as an example.
As part of the management of the maintenance facility at an international Airport, we were required to participate in the aircraft recovery meetings.
Lists were made of heavy crane operators in near vicinity and the nearest stored air bag systems, if none were on the aerodrome, as an example.
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I’m guessing if you stuffed up and blocked the runway in a way that made recovery of the aircraft a lengthy process, then the airport reserves the right to do whatever it takes to get the runway open again?
Kai Tak blowing the tail off the 744 that went into drink in the 90s springs to mind. I’m sure reading somewhere if they’d not done that, it might have been salvageable as it was almost brand new.
Kai Tak blowing the tail off the 744 that went into drink in the 90s springs to mind. I’m sure reading somewhere if they’d not done that, it might have been salvageable as it was almost brand new.
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How do you know the circumstances are different? Are you the AAIB or company Safety Investigator? Nobody knows the exact cause of Fridays event yet.
There’ll have been a lot of TUI and Jet2 mates running PERF calcs with the METAR for their interest over the last couple of days, that’s for sure. Not a nice day in the office for the crew, but learnings will be made available in due course.
There’ll have been a lot of TUI and Jet2 mates running PERF calcs with the METAR for their interest over the last couple of days, that’s for sure. Not a nice day in the office for the crew, but learnings will be made available in due course.