Tui runway excursion at Leeds Bradford 20/10/23

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by bobradamus

haha - amazing, thanks!

On the contrary, I'd have said (after seeing the photos) that the need to change both engines was entirely unsurprising.

[bobradamus]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

On the contrary, I'd have said (after seeing the photos) that the need to change both engines was entirely unsurprising.

Absolutely!

[midnight cruiser]

Originally Posted by Discorde

The add-ons are designed to counter horizontal windshear effects (wind strength decreasing as the ground is neared) and apply only to headwind component to counter loss of lift resulting from slow change to 'inertial' groundspeed.!

Thank you; that's certainly my interpretation, and though it could be interpreted either way, logically a perpendicular gust or ground effect variation in windspeed is not going to affect the IAS, so there shouldn't be an addition. (In practice, of course a couple of knots for mum, or more empirically, a knot or three for the sin of the crab angle, same thing. but ref+ 15, fluctuating+20 and you're in trouble on a short wet runway with no head component..

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

On the contrary, I'd have said (after seeing the photos) that the need to change both engines was entirely unsurprising.

Quite so. You wouldn't even begin to think of running an engine with that amount of debris shown plus whatever may have been ingested before shut down.

Which leaves the u/c. Given you can't jack the aircraft outside presumably a gear down and locked one flight only to base where this can be accomplished for retraction checks should also be unsurprising ....probably won't stop reggie spotter ( c/o Uncle Roger) posting on YT screaming about "crashed jet landing gear doesn't retract !" however,

[dixi188]

Who said you can't jack an aircraft outside? (Not wise if it's likely to be windy). However I expect there will be a gear down ferry to a maintenance base.

[Jump Complete]

I was told it was due a C Check this week, somewhere abroad, but will now stay in the UK, so I guess a gear down ferry fits with that.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by dixi188

Who said you can't jack an aircraft outside? (Not wise if it's likely to be windy). However I expect there will be a gear down ferry to a maintenance base.

Some airlines forbid it, some don't, I suppose depends on their safety standards.



I wouldn't be walking underneath that one.

[bentley01]

Originally Posted by midnight cruiser

Thank you; that's certainly my interpretation, and though it could be interpreted either way, logically a perpendicular gust or ground effect variation in windspeed is not going to affect the IAS, so there shouldn't be an addition. (In practice, of course a couple of knots for mum, or more empirically, a knot or three for the sin of the crab angle, same thing. but ref+ 15, fluctuating+20 and you're in trouble on a short wet runway with no head component..

Boeing give the same advice as we used to give as an aircraft manufacturer. You can have zero headwind component but a gust factor addition. They even have a table that I was going to post but I am unable to until I reach 8 forum posts. It gives an example of runway 36 and a wind of 090 15 gusting 25 and shows an approach speed of VREF+10. Hope this helps.

[Discorde]

Thanks bentley01. The guidance we were given in the past has perhaps been superseded. The complication is that the higher speed may cause floating during the flare, which will prolong exposure to the crosswind and increase the LDR - critical on a short runway.

[bentley01]

I agree particularly when the guidelines state maintain the gust factor addition until touchdown. I can’t speak for Boeing test procedures but when I was involved in performance testing to revise AFM figures for short runways in tropical conditions we set a minimum VREF - speed which was the minimum touchdown speed which still provided tailstrike protection and also guidelines on the maximum touchdown speed in relation to VREF. The figures work until combined with a few extra knots, 60 ft over the threshold and a prolonged flare without maximum braking until too late. Late applications of lift dumping devices and reverse have a huge impact as well.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by dixi188

Who said you can't jack an aircraft outside? (Not wise if it's likely to be windy). However I expect there will be a gear down ferry to a maintenance base.

That is (or at least used to be) a regular occurrence on the Boeing Flightline in Everett.
Although it can still end it tears - about 30 years ago we had a big windstorm move through the area (gusts near 100 mph) - did lots of damage, including blowing an aircraft on the Boeing Flightline off its jacks.
Reportedly instructions had been issued to de-jack the aircraft before the storm hit, but someone dropped the ball and it didn't happen

[punkalouver]

Originally Posted by tdracer

That is (or at least used to be) a regular occurrence on the Boeing Flightline in Everett.
Although it can still end it tears - about 30 years ago we had a big windstorm move through the area (gusts near 100 mph) - did lots of damage, including blowing an aircraft on the Boeing Flightline off its jacks.
Reportedly instructions had been issued to de-jack the aircraft before the storm hit, but someone dropped the ball and it didn't happen

Any Pics TD?

It is quite amazing sometimes to hear things like this story and to not had someone follow through to make sure it is being done. Sometimes, you have to do things yourself(in terms of making sure precautions are taken) as no one else will. A local warbird place on occasion puts a bunch of their extremely expensive aircraft out on the ramp. Yet no one seems to keep an eye on the weather even though it is thunderstorm season. More than once, I have had to let them know that the aircraft may get very wet(or worse) as I was the only one bothering to check the weather radar.

[LBIA]

The TUi Boeing 737-800, G-TAWD is flight planned to leave Leeds at 17:00 as TOM958P heading out to Warsaw.

[jethro15]

The TUi Boeing 737-800, G-TAWD is flight planned to leave Leeds at 17:00 as TOM958P heading out to Warsaw.

​​​​​​​Doesn't appear to have happened.

[LBIA]

Yeap it's still at LBA on stand 15,. They did do some engines runs earlier this afternoon though..
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[Trossie]

Now 1000Z on 31 October.

[Jonty]

Have they changed the engines?

[Uplinker]

I hope they got all the gravel and xxxx out of the main wheel bay - don't want a stone jamming the mechanical flight control runs or autopilot mechanisms.

[SWBKCB]

Well it's on its way now!

[silverelise]

Does anyone know the logisitcs for the engine replacement? Did they swap in a couple of engines from something already in maintenance or have they had to obtain two new/used replacements ?