Air Safety Institute Senior Vice President...
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Just goes to show, Fate is certainly the Hunter. Fair winds Brothers.
Timbered country, not a place you'd want to come down in, he wrote about turn backs as well.
https://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-...way-behind-you
Timbered country, not a place you'd want to come down in, he wrote about turn backs as well.
https://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-...way-behind-you
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Some of the best of the best have been unable to successfully deal with engine failures. I have no illusion of being a member of that group.
our thoughts go out to the family members for their loss.
our thoughts go out to the family members for their loss.
Last edited by 70 Mustang; 2nd Oct 2023 at 05:53.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Terrible news. And sobering. Richard was a joy to watch and learn from on the Air Safety Institute YouTube channel, delivering fair, insightful, clear and informative videos. That he, of all people, lost his life in a light aircraft accident, should serve as a stark warning to us all.
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Gnome de PPRuNe
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Think McSpadden interviewed Mark Levy after his forced landing in a P-51 just short of the M11 at Duxford a few years ago. Nice bloke, what a shame.
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Timbered country, not a place you'd want to come down in, he wrote about turn backs as well
It can happen to any of us.....
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Richard's interview of Mark Levy was really well done, a credit to both guys on their professionalism. Aviation can throw up challenges to anyone at anytime, and the outcome depends on the circumstances and capability and the accuracy of decisions made under uncertainty, stress and some luck.
I was shocked to hear of this accident and, later in the day, to learn that a local Carbon Cub pilot had died in Washington.
My understanding is that the aircraft was owned and operated by a local club or FBO. I have taught engine fail turn backs and you really have to know the aircraft to know if it is possible. In the PA-28-180 and AA-5A I have done them from 300 ft AGL with engine idle. In my constant speed prop Carbon Cub 500 ft was the absolute minimum. I would not attempt a real turn back with much less than twice those altitudes.
If a turn back was attempted then how well did either pilot know this aircraft and the altitude required to stand a chance of making it work?
My understanding is that the aircraft was owned and operated by a local club or FBO. I have taught engine fail turn backs and you really have to know the aircraft to know if it is possible. In the PA-28-180 and AA-5A I have done them from 300 ft AGL with engine idle. In my constant speed prop Carbon Cub 500 ft was the absolute minimum. I would not attempt a real turn back with much less than twice those altitudes.
If a turn back was attempted then how well did either pilot know this aircraft and the altitude required to stand a chance of making it work?
Last edited by EXDAC; 3rd Oct 2023 at 17:19.
https://www.adirondackdailyenterpris...sh-identified/
It also appears the takeoff was to the northwest (crash "at the end of a runway, near the North Elba Athletic Fields"), with the city of Lake Placid ahead on the runway centerline, and buildings beginning only 200m or so from the end of the runway
(Speculation) It is even possible this was actually an aborted takeoff (or attempt to put the plane back down while still over the runway), that ran right off the runway and down the embankment/gully (see shadows) and into the trees at the NW runway end.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/La...n-US&entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/place/La...n-US&entry=ttu
EDIT: However, it appears it may have just landed short on an immediate 180° return, and hit the embankment going the other way.
https://www.wcax.com/2023/10/02/2-de...k-plane-crash/
Last edited by pattern_is_full; 3rd Oct 2023 at 15:40.
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Former New England Patriot Russ Francis was in the left hand seat and the owner of the plane. He was a very experienced pilot. While he played for the Patriots in the 1980s, he owned a Beech Staggerwing which he flew out of nearby Norwood Airport, KOWD. RIP!
Anyone here know the 177RG well? Some CS props are still in the governing range with engine windmilling at best glide speed. For these aircraft there is a significant improvement in glide performance with prop control full aft as the prop goes to coarse pitch. Other engine and prop combinations stay flat/fine at best glide speed and the glide ratio suffers.
What does the 177RG do?
What does the 177RG do?
This video may be of interest if this accident was confirmed to be an engine fail turn back - https://www.aopa.org/training-and-sa...way-behind-you
(I can't post this without commenting that I think the advice to use best glide speed for the 45 degree bank turn is totally wrong. The 45 degree banked turn should be made just above 45 deg bank stall speed to minimize turn radius.)
(I can't post this without commenting that I think the advice to use best glide speed for the 45 degree bank turn is totally wrong. The 45 degree banked turn should be made just above 45 deg bank stall speed to minimize turn radius.)
Last edited by EXDAC; 3rd Oct 2023 at 17:20.
I am very sorry to hear of Richard’s passing (& the other pilot on board too!). I, like fdr, enjoyed his interview with Mark Levy regarding the P51 intermittent engine failure & the analysis of it, a great discussion on Startle Factor. I used that video as part of a course I created on dealing with flight emergencies for our own pilots. The statements “take three seconds & make the optimum decision, rather than one second & make a reactive decision” & "Startle Factor can make you do something dumb" are important messages in that video & great reminders for all of us...
For those who have not watched that video, I'd highly recommend it - it goes for approximately 30 minutes...
Regards to all & condolences to the family & friends of those involved in this tragedy...
VH-MLE
For those who have not watched that video, I'd highly recommend it - it goes for approximately 30 minutes...
Regards to all & condolences to the family & friends of those involved in this tragedy...
VH-MLE
Last edited by VH-MLE; 4th Oct 2023 at 07:08.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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His calm, measured discussion of accidents and incidents contrasts sharply with the output of another regular YTer whose own recent accident did rather raise my eyebrows. Probably have een more of Richard's videos, once you've watched one... sort of person you'd enjoy a pint with.