Jet2 low fuel PMI

[bean]

The Daily Record Youtube channel randomly popped up on my computer today. It claims that a Jet2 flight from GLA to PMI on August 27th held for an hour in the air at PMI and landed at PMI with less than final reserve fuel and that the Spanish are investigating.
Interesting

[Mr Good Cat]

Originally Posted by bean

The Daily Record Youtube channel randomly popped up on my computer today. It claims that a Jet2 flight from GLA to PMI on August 27th held for an hour in the air at PMI and landed at PMI with less than final reserve fuel and that the Spanish are investigating.
Interesting

Well, the reports say 39kg less than final reserve(not sure how they are so accurate!). So pretty much bang on it. If they committed as the best option and declared ICAO 4444 Minimum Fuel, then it may just be a case of slightly longer vectors than they were anticipating. Doesn't seem like a huge issue on a particularly bad day for weather.

[Chesty Morgan]

The gauges aren't even that accurate

[meleagertoo]

How can anyone hold at destination (especially on a "particularly bad say for weather") having burned through diversion and contingency fuel? Why hadn't they diverted half an hour previously?
Had they landed at IBZ or BCN on skosh fuel I'd be tempted to sympathyse (while wondering why they hadn't added plenty extra fuel given the forecast or diverted earlier).
As reported it sounds like a Very Big Deal indeed to me.


27 Aug 2023, 09:00 to 28 Aug 2023, 06:00 (UTC):
TAF AMD LEPA 270926Z 2709/2806 31012KT 9999 SCT010 TX27/2712Z TN19/2806Z PROB40 TEMPO 2709/2714 27020G50KT TEMPO 2709/2720 30015G27KT 2000 SHRA TSGR SCT030CB


27 Aug 2023, 18:00 to 28 Aug 2023, 18:00 (UTC):
TAF AMD LEPA 271834Z 2718/2818 30010KT 9999 SCT010 TX26/2812Z TN19/2806Z TEMPO 2718/2720 30033G55KT TEMPO 2718/2721 30015G27KT 2000 SHRA TSGR SCT020CB TEMPO 2720/2805 VRB04KT

[Chesty Morgan]

Or perhaps they had an EAT for PMI and, as said above, maybe had slightly extended vectors.

Who Knows? We don't.

[meleagertoo]

Regardless of an EAT you may not hang around your destination below minimum diversion fuel. You have to divert. They didn't. That seems a very serious situation to me.

[flyboy146]

Oh dear, another armchair critic who doesn’t know what they are talking about.

[macdo]

Unless things have much improved around the Balearics, the situation can quickly become quite chaotic in poor weather. Without all the info, I'd imagine the crew made a logical decision to hang around.

[kmw63]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

Regardless of an EAT you may not hang around your destination below minimum diversion fuel. You have to divert. They didn't. That seems a very serious situation to me.

Never heard of committing? At one of the largest two-runway airfields in the region?

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

Regardless of an EAT you may not hang around your destination below minimum diversion fuel. You have to divert. They didn't. That seems a very serious situation to me.

That's not correct. You can use your diversion fuel to stay at your current destination if that's the best option.
The question will be whether they declared Min Fuel and then a MayDay when it looked like they were going to land below final reserve.
I don't want to question their decision making, I wasn't there, but did they follow procedure?

[Brian Pern]

Google is a wonderful tool:

https://www.mitma.es/organos-colegia...023/a-024-2023

and here:

https://avherald.com/h?article=50e9fa3f&opt=0

[speed13ird]

The rules require an aircraft to land with more than final reserve. At what point is the fuel remaining measured, on landing or on arrival at the parking position?

[bean]

the official preliminary report gives 1115z as time of the occurance but, look at the 1100 metar on avherald

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

Regardless of an EAT you may not hang around your destination below minimum diversion fuel. You have to divert. They didn't. That seems a very serious situation to me.

It's a good job you're retired.

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by speed13ird

The rules require an aircraft to land with more than final reserve. At what point is the fuel remaining measured, on landing or on arrival at the parking position?

It'll be on landing. Unless you're worried about them using over a tonne of fuel for the taxi in.

[70 Mustang]

extended taxi…

with both engines running, can eat up a lot of fuel. Delays waiting for a gate, circuitous taxi route. Once, long ago, at Rome FCO, surrounded by thunderstorms, broke off the approach, headed for alternate, but ATC said FCO was okay, and visually I could see the storms had passed, so we turned back. (joint decision) by the time we got to the gate, we had gone well below final reserve. Would this current incident have had to have the fuel qty electronically transmitted upon landing? Thankfully, the event mentioned above, did not trigger any alerts; on a classic 737. I “added” some fuel when writing in the logbook.

[speed13ird]

Chesty, the question was how do the investigators know how much fuel the aircraft actually landed with? I'm guessing taxi in at 600kgph would use about 30-40kg and 2nd detent reverse about the same again, so 80kg?

[thnarg]

As far as I can tell none of us were there to assess the weather around the islands nor at the alternates, nor if they were even accepting diversions. Personally if I were talking to an approach with two long runways and a reasonable assurance of success, that’s where I’d go. Tea with no biscuits if necessary.

Fuel quantity is just numbers on gauges until it goes very quiet. Safety is getting on the ground before that happens.

70Mustang, I think Jet2 still use paper tech logs…

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by speed13ird

Chesty, the question was how do the investigators know how much fuel the aircraft actually landed with?

QAR data, if FDR wasn't preserved.

[Lake1952]

The shortage of 39 kg is a whopping 12 US gallons of fuel. How accurate are the guages?