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SR22 down near Bruges, (BE) - BRS saved the day

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SR22 down near Bruges, (BE) - BRS saved the day

Old 19th Nov 2022, 14:20
  #21 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post
Gliders are designed to land in fields, tricycle gear aircraft arenít. Also gliders by their nature donít carry fuel.

If I had tried to land I would definitely have ended up inverted with 250 litres of avgas for company.
During my time instructing on Bulldogs, I always kept that possibility at the back of my mind. A low wing, sliding canopy aircraft will be extremely difficult, if not impossible to vacate in that situation. I never let my students even attempt to carry out PFLs to ploughed or other obviously soft surfaced fields in case the engine didnít pick up for the go-around. Although we regularly practiced abandonment drills a flew with personal back pack parachutes the published minimum height for the chute opening was 800 feet.

BRS is a great idea in situations like the one you found yourself in! Well managed, too!
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 14:55
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post
Gliders are designed to land in fields, tricycle gear aircraft arenít. Also gliders by their nature donít carry fuel.
If I had tried to land I would definitely have ended up inverted with 250 litres of avgas for company.
Good point on the gliders , but is the Cirrus prone to get inverted ? most out of field landings on tricycle low wing aircraft on soft ground the nose gear might collapse after touch down but you do not loop. More the case for High wing aircraft (or ditching on water of course.)
​​​​​​​Anyway good for you to have pulled out the BRS !


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Old 19th Nov 2022, 17:12
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But with a high wing aircraft you’re less likely to get trapped if the aircraft inverts.
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 17:14
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A big difference between gliders and airplanes is that you have much more think time in a glider that can be applied to field and landing spot selection. Spoilers come in very handy in touching down at the best possible spot.
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 18:11
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but is the Cirrus prone to get inverted ?
Even if it doesn't: a landing in a field is unlikely to end well. This is what happened to a pilot who tried to stretch a glide rather than pull:




He died.

This is what happened to me:




I was unhurt.
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 21:01
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Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
A big difference between gliders and airplanes is that you have much more think time in a glider that can be applied to field and landing spot selection. Spoilers come in very handy in touching down at the best possible spot.
100% agree, you're right.
@Jonzarno : Your 2 photos indeed show the difference. Very convincing . So pull the thing it will be . I rest my case .
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 22:29
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Jonzarno Your photograph shows what appears to oil residue around the cowling where the prop boss is meant to be, and that it was blowing back along the fuse.

It seems to me quite possible that it would have - or did - have an impact on forward visibility through the screen? I should think this a factor in the decision to operate the 'chute - after all if you can't see where you're going, or you suspect that's going to get a whole lot worse, then it certainly won't assist in a 'normal' field landing.

Quite apart from that I wonder if you had a close look at the pointy end of the engine? Would be interested to know if you have any initial indication as to what let go.

FP.
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 22:57
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
So pull the thing it will be . I rest my case .
well, might I suggest: "use common sense and sound judgement". Few months earlier, same area, this was much more "to BRS or not to BRS, that's the question"


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Old 20th Nov 2022, 09:21
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Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
A big difference between gliders and airplanes is that you have much more think time in a glider that can be applied to field and landing spot selection. Spoilers come in very handy in touching down at the best possible spot.
Good points. Others include:
Gliders are taildraggers. The main wheel is well in front of the center of gravity.
Training:
Glider pilots are drilled to do off field landings. Including spot full stall landing at min speed, slipping the plane (descending steeply without gaining speed), selecting fields (brown over green etc.), watching for the green islands indicative of power line masts, to name a few. Typical powered pilots are often lacking these skills.

Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post
... unlikely to end well. This is what happened to a pilot who tried to stretch a glide rather than pull:




He died....
Unlikely to end well without proper training. Such a deadly pulling stall while trying to stretch the glide shows lack of training in powerless flight: If you don't know when not to pull the stick pulling the BSR is clearly the better option.

Last edited by spornrad; 20th Nov 2022 at 10:28.
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Old 20th Nov 2022, 12:16
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Originally Posted by First_Principal View Post
Jonzarno Your photograph shows what appears to oil residue around the cowling where the prop boss is meant to be, and that it was blowing back along the fuse.

It seems to me quite possible that it would have - or did - have an impact on forward visibility through the screen? I should think this a factor in the decision to operate the 'chute - after all if you can't see where you're going, or you suspect that's going to get a whole lot worse, then it certainly won't assist in a 'normal' field landing.

Quite apart from that I wonder if you had a close look at the pointy end of the engine? Would be interested to know if you have any initial indication as to what let go.

FP.
1. No impact on visibility at all
2. I have a picture but, for some reason, it won't upload, here is a link to it:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/007Y...uknNn45mAemwcw

Last edited by Jonzarno; 20th Nov 2022 at 14:48.
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Old 20th Nov 2022, 13:42
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Originally Posted by spornrad View Post
Training:
Glider pilots are drilled to do off field landings. Including spot full stall landing at min speed, slipping the plane (descending steeply without gaining speed), selecting fields (brown over green etc.), watching for the green islands indicative of power line masts, to name a few. Typical powered pilots are often lacking these skills.

In my view that is the main point. If you are not trained and accustomed to always judging any ground you see in terms of ability to land on it or not, it is a huge missing puzzle piece. In my previous gliding club they had an engine failure at fairly low altitude on a refueling flight with their tow plane (no winch launches possible on their field, therefore towing is the only way). Full fuel load, not much time to check, low wing tricycle gear plane, Robin DR-300. They were able to find such a good landing spot that the engine could be swapped on the same field and the plane could be flown out of there after the swap was done (with proper authorization of course).

If one doesn’t have that skillset and the option of a BRS, of course it is the best option to pull it.
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Old 20th Nov 2022, 13:57
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Jonzarno,
Well done, You were confronted with a serious emergency and you kept your cool, Devised a well thought out plan, under extreme duress and time constraints, and then executed it successfully.
You should be proud of yourself.

Last edited by Chiefttp; 21st Nov 2022 at 16:22.
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 12:58
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by spornrad View Post
If you don't know when not to pull the stick pulling the BSR is clearly the better option.
Theoretically (and possibly even practically under benign circumstances) surely 95% of the Pilots that stretched and crashed knew when theoretically not to pull. And then there's the real thing where suddenly you see obstacles or just need to get over those bloody trees or that house in front of you and that's when instincts will kick in and it is EXTREMELY hard not to give in and to subtly further pull on the stick (and get yourself deeper into trouble by deteriorating glide ratio) when on speed of best glide. On the sofa, sitting besides your armchair none of those would have crashed.

By pulling BRS you prevent getting into the situation where shortly before touchdown you notice an ugly obstacle which might force you into a deadly mistake. That said it is not an easy decision to accept knowingly significantly damaging your plane by pulling the chute (confirmed by not few instances of planes with BRS that nonetheless fatally crashed).
High marks from me for decision making to the pilot in this case.
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 22:18
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Originally Posted by pants on fire... View Post
They flew to Bruges! I wonder if this will make it into Private Eye?
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