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Sudden wind overturns PA28 at Blackpool

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Sudden wind overturns PA28 at Blackpool

Old 29th Oct 2021, 18:39
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Sudden wind overturns PA28 at Blackpool


Given that a small Tornado was reported in nearby Wigan this was an unfortunate outcome.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 19:46
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That was to be the Essex Radio traffic reporting Cherokee that used to operate out of Southend.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 22:19
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That must have been some wind. Sadly the old trick of locking the seatbelt to the control column often resulted in this .
Hard right and full back on the elevator made it flip.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 10:58
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What's the alternatives to using the seatbelt to lock the control column?
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 12:23
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External control locks are the usual way of doing this. They will lock the controls neutral.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 12:54
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Restraining flight controls at the control stick/wheel is a last resort, always try to use external control locks. The flight control system is not designed to withstand unquantified gust loads while parked in strong winds. If the cockpit controls are locked, yet the flight controls unrestrained, they try to move against the control system as a whole. When something gets damaged in the flight control system, it may be very difficult to detect during a walk around inspection. I have twice taken off in an airplane, whose walk around was fine, but actually had damage, Both times, it affected the way the plane flew in a very unsafe way - which I found out only in flight. I now know what better to look for for defects, but the first thing I want to do is remove external locks. The most serious such event was an Air Moorea Twin Otter, flight 1121, easy search. The plane spent a lot of time on the apron with cockpit locked controls, downwind to jet blast - the elevator controls failed in flight.

If you can't install external locks on all controls, at least turn the plane into the prevailing wind....
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 20:54
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I second the suggestion of external locks where possible. However, for a PA28 such as this, external locking of the stabilator is not possible. There are some internal locks available involving restraining the yoke with a device or bungee attached to the rudder pedals. The no-cost option is wedging the yoke forward with the seat back, which is quick, always available, and surprisingly effective. I certainly agree that restraining the yoke fully aft with the seatbelt is a terrible idea. See PA28 stabilator control lock
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 16:34
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Good points about seat belt control locks

I’ve noticed a tendency for PA 28 operators to think the PA 28’s are immune from being blown over. Aircraft should be tied down if high winds are forecast with proper tie down points or concrete blocks. Don’t forget to untie them before flight though, I see in the latest set of MOR’’s a pilot taxied out with all the tie downs still connected and took off. I think the blocks fell off before rotate!!!!!
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 03:34
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Originally Posted by FIC101 View Post
Good points about seat belt control locks
Donít forget to untie them before flight though, I see in the latest set of MORíís a pilot taxied out with all the tie downs still connected and took off. I think the blocks fell off before rotate!!!!!
A link would be appreciated.
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 09:58
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Originally Posted by FIC101 View Post
Good points about seat belt control locks

Iíve noticed a tendency for PA 28 operators to think the PA 28ís are immune from being blown over. Aircraft should be tied down if high winds are forecast with proper tie down points or concrete blocks. Donít forget to untie them before flight though, I see in the latest set of MORíís a pilot taxied out with all the tie downs still connected and took off. I think the blocks fell off before rotate!!!!!
A sense of dťjŗ vu as this Ďstyleí of take-off has occurred historically. Many moons ago at Elstree??

Did BPL have a TAF published? Was a MET special ~ METAR undertaken?
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 12:20
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Aircraft should be tied down if high winds are forecast with proper tie down points or concrete blocks.
Not so much to the concrete blocks. If you have concrete blocks heavy enough to be useful, they're probably too big the park over/around. I have not seen data for a PA-28, but Cessna, for the 182, in some POH's states that each tiedown should have a capacity of 700 pounds. I learned that lesson forty or so years ago...

I used to fly a kindly lent to me 172M. It lived at a private grass runway near my home, with its only co airplane there being a Seabee, parked across the field hundreds of feet away. Both were tied down to stacks of concrete patio stones (I'll estimate 300-400 pounds per stack). I got a frantic phone call at dawn one morning from the non pilot farmer who lived at the farm where the runway was. "In the big wind last night, the planes blew into each other!!!". I had been last to fly the 172, I was worried - I rushed to the plane. Sure enough, they were now "together". The Seabee had cartwheeled all the way across the apron, and its wing (now devoid of a wingtip float) had passed over the 172 wing. The stack of concrete patio stones, still tied to the Seabee tiedown point, were now under the 172 wing, with the rope a little deflected by passing over the aileron. Aside from a very small bend on the trailing edge of the aileron, the 172 was otherwise undamged - the Seabee was a mess - dented and wrinkled at all corners. I gently pushed the 172 out from under the Seabee to prevent further damage. I learned that day that if you mean it, to have to tie planes well, and I believe Cessna's 700 pound value.
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 19:28
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Not so much to the concrete blocks. If you have concrete blocks heavy enough to be useful, they're probably too big the park over/around. I have not seen data for a PA-28, but Cessna, for the 182, in some POH's states that each tiedown should have a capacity of 700 pounds. I learned that lesson forty or so years ago...

I used to fly a kindly lent to me 172M. It lived at a private grass runway near my home, with its only co airplane there being a Seabee, parked across the field hundreds of feet away. Both were tied down to stacks of concrete patio stones (I'll estimate 300-400 pounds per stack). I got a frantic phone call at dawn one morning from the non pilot farmer who lived at the farm where the runway was. "In the big wind last night, the planes blew into each other!!!". I had been last to fly the 172, I was worried - I rushed to the plane. Sure enough, they were now "together". The Seabee had cartwheeled all the way across the apron, and its wing (now devoid of a wingtip float) had passed over the 172 wing. The stack of concrete patio stones, still tied to the Seabee tiedown point, were now under the 172 wing, with the rope a little deflected by passing over the aileron. Aside from a very small bend on the trailing edge of the aileron, the 172 was otherwise undamged - the Seabee was a mess - dented and wrinkled at all corners. I gently pushed the 172 out from under the Seabee to prevent further damage. I learned that day that if you mean it, to have to tie planes well, and I believe Cessna's 700 pound value.
If you consider that the average passenger will weigh around a 80 kg and most of the tie down blocks Iíve seen weigh less than 40 kg itís hardly surprising that a pair of them wonít stop the typical light plane trying to take off on a 50-60 kt gust! The concrete blocks have less effect than putting a person in the plane.
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Old 8th Nov 2021, 17:01
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Originally Posted by Spotthedog View Post
What's the alternatives to using the seatbelt to lock the control column?
Tie the thing to the ground, that's why they're called tie-downs. What an avoidable wreck.
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Old 8th Nov 2021, 21:09
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"Tie the thing to the ground."
Is in addition to tying control column. It will allow control surfaces to move in the wind.
PS I understand fixing stick back in a tailwheel aircraft into wind. But in a nose wheel aircraft, with tail and wing tie-downs, into wind,, it will try to lift the nose and increase lift.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 22:09
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I second the comment about tie downs…

Have some sturdy bolts imbedded deeply in the ground, then tie the plane down so it doesn’t blow away like a leaf in the wind.

If you think a hurricane is approaching , then fly it away elsewhere to get out of the way, or stick it in a hanger.

Weather forecasting is pretty good these days.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 22:31
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One time my spouse and I hopped out of a Cessna 172 after a flight, leaving both doors wide open once I taxied into our tie down spot, at which point the breeze started to make it roll forward.

The open doors turned it into a kite, catching the wind, which we could have predicted HAD WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN ADVANCE.

We immediately bounced back towards the plane and slammed the doors shut so it wouldn’t slam into a plane across the way. Oops!

We pushed it back and tied it down. Lesson learned.

The wind was straight down the runway, so landing was easy. It’s the tie down that got interesting.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 19:47
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Rope around rudder pedals to yoke aileron neutral and down elevator.
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 00:02
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For me, in cockpit control locks are a last resort. Twice, I've take off in planes to find in flight, hidden control system damage which resulted from unlocked flight controls straining against locked cockpit controls.
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Old 17th Nov 2021, 19:49
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I hear what you are saying Pilot DAR but anyone parking a light aircraft outside has to face facts. In strong winds the aircraft is vulnerable unless tied to terra firma. The token tie downs with small lumps of concrete or water filled plastic drums are a waste of time. My last aircraft which was on a few hundred metres from home was protected by a U shaped three metre high bund of straw bales. This offered protection from high winds and screened the aircraft from public eyes. In all honesty leaving a valuable possession such as an aircraft outside is a recipe for disaster. You wouldn’t keep your ride on mower outside so why your flying machine?
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 12:52
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
For me, in cockpit control locks are a last resort. Twice, I've take off in planes to find in flight, hidden control system damage which resulted from unlocked flight controls straining against locked cockpit controls.
Aircraft type please?
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