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Passengers stuck on plane wing during evacuation

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Passengers stuck on plane wing during evacuation

Old 19th Sep 2020, 11:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve flown this very aircraft from both seats at flybe, it was SOP for the Captain to guard the thrust levers up to V1 so in the event of an RTO it’s the Captain who rejects and takes control (incap aside), as an FO I’d select F5 whilst we were stopping so by the time you stop it should already be set. If I remember correctly (God it’s only been 6 months) the flaps are not part of the Embraer QHR vital actions so although they should of been set it’s quite easy to forget hence the confirmation rather than select. The other reason I believe is if you evacuate after landing then more often than not you’ve already got F5 set so I believe it’s confirm rather than select to prevent the automatic mind set that you have to move the flaps before evacuating.

Last edited by Han 1st Solo; 19th Sep 2020 at 11:12.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 19:21
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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DaveReid I quite agree with your definition of the word "confirms" but the AAIB doesn't fully agree (use of the word "suggests") and the manufacturer doesn't seem too bothered anyway as flap 1 is enough regardless.

Easy Street, VIKING9 - hehe would said computer have rejected the takeoff and initiated the evacuation at all?

Han 1st Solo thanks for your genuinely knowledgeable input!

I'll just conclude that if it is ambiguous enough to cause this discussion, I believe it should be cleared up in a revision to the QRH or FCTM, but that was not a finding of the report.

I'm going to bow out now, as it seems we are just going around in circles! But thanks for the discourse!
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 09:59
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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It is not Embraer procedure to select flaps 5 during deceleration. It's part of the evacuation checklist only.

Hydraulics are not an issue, the flaps run on AC power. Not much of a difference, though. Once you shut down the engines, they won't move anymore.

If you look at the Embraer QRH procedure (which is in the report right below the Flybe vital items) it only requires to set the lever to 5 and does not ask to wait or check for actual deployment. (In general Embraer manufacturer's procedures cannot be lauded for consistency with normal and abnormal checklists using different naming philosophies and items used every flight referred to by ridiculously long wordings while at the same time not requiring to check a system state but rather if the lever is in the correct position.)

Regarding the position of the trailing edge flaps, there is no difference between flaps 3, 4 and 5 as only the slats move between 3 and 4/5.

It would of course make sense to mark overwing escape routes in day-glow or similar, but airlines seem to loathe painting stuff on planes that reminds passengers of emergencies (like marking exit outlines in light grey which is much less conspicuous to emergency responders than a red frame).

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:04
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by White Van Driver View Post
VIKING9 - hehe would said computer have rejected the takeoff and initiated the evacuation at all?
I suppose Cabin Crew will get a guarded "smoke observed" button on their panel, next to the "medical emergency" button and the "prepare emergency landing" light..... That whole cabin to flight deck interface is probably unexplored territory on the way to automation as current initiatives are geared to single-pilot cruise rather than pilot-free operations.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 15:24
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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White Van Driver

The flaps are electrically powered on the E190/E170, not hydraulically, although shutting down the engines would also shutdown your source of AC power. (The APU is usually not running during take-offs and landings.)
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 23:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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DavidReidUK
I know nothing about flying aeroplanes, but purely linguistically there is an ambiguity: does "Confirms Flap 5" mean "confirms that the controls are set for Flap 5" or "confirms that the flaps have actually reached the Flap 5 position"?

It is extraordinarily hard to be unambiguous.
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 00:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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confirm is not a declared order to. It's to confirm that you have thought about it as a reccomended procedure
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 16:57
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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VH DSJ

Even with APU running, it would be shut down immediately after the engines when running through the emergency evacuation checklist.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 14:27
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FlightlessParrot

Even the Airbus itself can't agree between flap lever position and VMax...
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 08:50
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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E-jets E2 have OWE slides 👍🏽
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 21:06
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Their main landing gear is higher due to larger engines and more tail clearance being required for a longer fuselage.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:40
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at other popular narrow bodies, the A318/319/320 has overwing exit slides. (A321 doesn't have overwing exits at all)
The A321 can have different door configurations. Surely those with 4 overwing self-help exits still have a dual-lane slide that deploys over the wing!?? Even with the double-slotted flaps that's a huge drop!

Last edited by TotalBeginner; 10th Oct 2020 at 13:07.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 13:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TotalBeginner View Post
The A321 can have different door configurations. Surely those with 4 overwing self-help exits still have a dual-lane slide that deploys over the wing!??
Correct.



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