Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

White Waltham Pitts crash

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

White Waltham Pitts crash

Old 25th Aug 2019, 10:58
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: London
Posts: 2
White Waltham Pitts crash

Heard there was a 2 up fatal there yesterday. Blue skies gentlemen.
Waltzer is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2019, 12:17
  #2 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Twickenham, home of rugby
Posts: 6,574
Possibly this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...eporting-story
Saab Dastard is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2019, 12:25
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: OLBA
Age: 52
Posts: 45
RIP incredibly sad
kitekruncher is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 06:42
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South of France
Posts: 1,035
So painfully shocking. Awful news.
strake is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 08:15
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: scotland
Posts: 83
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/979694...led-air-crash/
ericsson16 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 11:56
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South East.
Posts: 714
That is so incredibly sad. Emily was at the top of her game, a great instructor and a lovely person. Yep, I know we push the edge of the envelope doing what we do but, of course, it'll never happen to us. Heartfelt sympathy, Mike, and blue skies all the way now, Emms. Sorry, it hasn't sunk in yet............
Sleeve Wing is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 17:30
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 125
I knew Emily through work, where she will be sadly missed by many.
Whatever is said now will never be enough at this time, but my sincerest sympathy goes to Mike, her family and all her friends at WW.
G-APDK
G-APDK is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 18:10
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA (back from Germany again)
Posts: 147
Sad news.

Why does the media insist on "stunts" instead of aerobatics or a similar more accurate word? Does anyone ever "roll the roll," or "spin the spin?" Or, do people just "loop the loop?" "Hammerhead the hammerhead?" Would it be "turn the stall turn" or "stall the stall turn?"

Any loss in flying is sad. When it's a well known/well liked person at a well know field, so much the worse. Aerobatic flying requires great precision and practice. It's not statistically dangerous. Calling it "stunt" flying is inaccurate and unfair.
LTCTerry is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 18:27
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South East.
Posts: 714
Agree all the way, Terry. We all get sick of "expert" journos and their dramatic misreporting. Qualifying it by saying it's what the public want to hear is just self-seeking BS. Aerobatic flying has risk; we accept that. But demeaning the performance of experienced and highly qualified pilots is unacceptable.
Sleeve Wing is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2019, 06:26
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by LTCTerry View Post
Sad news.

Why does the media insist on "stunts" instead of aerobatics or a similar more accurate word? Does anyone ever "roll the roll," or "spin the spin?" Or, do people just "loop the loop?" "Hammerhead the hammerhead?" Would it be "turn the stall turn" or "stall the stall turn?"

Any loss in flying is sad. When it's a well known/well liked person at a well know field, so much the worse. Aerobatic flying requires great precision and practice. It's not statistically dangerous. Calling it "stunt" flying is inaccurate and unfair.
News stories are written for the general public and not those with a specific knowledge.

Stunt flying as a generic term may include barnstorming (see below), crazy flying (the performance of comedic aerial routines), or any spectacular or unusual flying feat performed for film or television cameras or for any kind of public display or entertainment. Stunt flying may be performed by one or more pilots at the same time and with almost any kind of flying craft (including parachutes and gliders, as well as the more usual powered airplanes). While in the early days the term was given to the extreme combat maneuvers performed by aircraft in World Wars I and II and to aerobatic flying (before the latter developed into a sport), these usages have fallen away.
source https://www.britannica.com/topic/stunt-flying
Press reporting is often blamed by a few whenever we read of a tragic accident.

Most of the newspaper reports will have originated from a press agency who turn out hundreds of stories every day.

The average person in the street has no idea of what aerobatics involves hence the preference for the word stunt.

Plummeting and plunging are also words that seem to upset some of the aviation community. However they correctly describe a rapid fall and are often used in quotes by eye witnesses.

Black box is an often used generic term for a flight recorder which we all know is orange.

Newspapers are aimed at the general public and not readers of specialist magazines.
Mike Flynn is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:38
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glasgow
Age: 29
Posts: 136
Just saw the news story yesterday, such a strange and sad mix of feelings.
I met Emily at an event a few months ago called "Get into Aeros" that she was a key part of, she was a very passionate pilot who loved the sport and is a big loss to the community.
gordonquinn is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2019, 11:21
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 363
Any info on possible causes?
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2019, 18:16
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 78
Posts: 3,682
Inverted spin?

I had a very good friend (who is sadly no longer with us) who had Pitts which he flew in his spare time. He used to fly in aerobatic competitions. He went into how he could get out of his aircraft "in extremis" quickly if he ever had to in great detail. He saught good advice from the jumping beans about how they would get out of his Pitts and got his parachute packed regularly by the same professionals.

So, one day he was practicing and his beloved Pitts would not recover from an inverted spin. Over the side he went at his critical height. He landed in a farmer's field and his beloved Pitts entered the ground into a copse nearby. Having apologised to the farmer, he got a taxi home, had four hours kip, and then came to work.

Jimbo believed (like me) that the principle of the 6Ps is always a good starting point.
JW411 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2019, 00:23
  #14 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 55
Posts: 5,926
JW411, I believe Rob Davies regularly practiced abandoning his Mustang and possibly also briefed others on the subject at displays - one of our fellow PPRuNers may be able to confirm that; well worth it as his successful low level exit at Duxford demonstrated all too clearly.
treadigraph is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2019, 08:02
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by JW411 View Post
Inverted spin?

I had a very good friend (who is sadly no longer with us) who had Pitts which he flew in his spare time. He used to fly in aerobatic competitions. He went into how he could get out of his aircraft "in extremis" quickly if he ever had to in great detail. He saught good advice from the jumping beans about how they would get out of his Pitts and got his parachute packed regularly by the same professionals.

So, one day he was practicing and his beloved Pitts would not recover from an inverted spin. Over the side he went at his critical height. He landed in a farmer's field and his beloved Pitts entered the ground into a copse nearby. Having apologised to the farmer, he got a taxi home, had four hours kip, and then came to work.

Jimbo believed (like me) that the principle of the 6Ps is always a good starting point.

I spoke yesterday to a friend who witnessed the final moments of the flight. ( Retired Pilot)
He said it appeared to be a vertical descent with no apparent rotation.

Last edited by cessnapete; 6th Sep 2019 at 10:25.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2019, 08:34
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: London
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Any info on possible causes?
I personally feel it would be wrong to speculate.
Waltzer is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2019, 09:18
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post



I spoke yesterday to a friend who witnessed of the final moments of the flight. ( Retired Pilot)
He said it appeared to be a vertical descent with no apparent rotation.
Sounds like it wasn't a spin then - a friend of mine owns and flies a Pitts and he says the recovery from a spin quite easily due to the size of the rudder - you just pull the power and take your feet off the rudder and hand off the stick.

The one place things get confusing is if the back seat pilot is looking over the top wing, the rotation appears to be the opposite, since the point of rotation of a fully developed spin is behind the wing to the back seater. So if they was looking in the wrong place, it would be easy to apply in-spin rudder, just making things worse. If you hold in-spin rudder, just relieving stick pressure will not stop the spin (Really big rudder), you have to push (or pull in an inverted spin) pretty hard
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2019, 11:56
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: London
Age: 51
Posts: 127
We will have to wait and see how the report comes back.... but it could have been a very late recovery from a spin or mechanical failure of the elevator from what your friend saw
Camargue is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2019, 15:50
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 358
I’m guessing due to the nature of the operation (training/pleasure flights etc), there would be camera footage?
Akrapovic is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 11:29
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: W.London
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Waltzer View Post

I personally feel it would be wrong to speculate.
I disagree. Though wild speculation helps nobody, especially not those bereaved, thoughtful discussion of possible causes is educational for all of us (who are pilots)
150commuter is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.