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Plane crashes after takeoff in northern Saskatchewan 25 people on board

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Plane crashes after takeoff in northern Saskatchewan 25 people on board

Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:25
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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I see that the first law suit has been filed in Regina. Lawyer is claiming aircraft was overweight and that the plane and runway hadn't been de-iced.

Now the fun starts!
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 20:35
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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In these types of lawsuits lawyers always allege just about every possible fault on the part of the defendants: Fond du Lac plane crash passengers file class-action suit | Regina Leader-Post
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 01:34
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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As much as I feel for the passengers , I have to say that this lawyer sounds like he is smoking some strong stuff!
Can anyone please help explaining him some basic flying principals and procedures.

Anyway , is the company still grounded and is there ANY new information of what might have happened?
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 03:02
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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How do you de-ice a runway ?
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 04:29
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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According to the Saskatoon Star-Phoenix,

The plaintiffs are also alleging that passengers did not receive direction or instruction from pilots or flight staff while the plane was going down.

"There was no warning or indication from the pilot or flight staff that there were problems during the crash; the passengers were left to fend for themselves in the chaos of the accident," the claim alleges.
Uhhhh....... Personally, I'd prefer the flight crew concentrate on flying the plane, keeping it airborne. Or if no choice, and to the extent they even had much control and time -- try to find a way to set it down that will increase survival chances.

In a crash just after TO, hardly time to aviate, let alone tell pax "Folks, I think we're about to crash. Thank you for flying Air Squish."
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 04:30
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tsgas View Post
How do you de-ice a runway ?
As long as the judge and/or jury believe it should have been de-iced, it doesn't matter...

Hopefully the defense can prevail with some true facts, but in some places that's not easy.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 07:50
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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How do you de-ice a runway ?
And how does this affect the take-off ?

You de-ice runways very much like streets, you apply some sort of salt, typically in a liquid solution to allow better distribution. Some of that stuff, especially the "environmental friently" types used in Scandinavia are really nasty to your metallic components like the landing gear.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 12:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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A deiced runway provides improved traction leading to much increased acceleration as everyone who drives a car would know, your honor!

Now in all seriousness if the runway is contaminated with snow or slush that can increase rolling resistance of the wheels and therefore increase the takeoff roll.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 15:40
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Runway de-icing: When I worked at Toronto City Centre airport (YTZ) we only used urea-formaldehyde fertilizer to de-ice the runways and taxiways, not salt. This is because urea is not corrosive like salt. I would imagine the same practice applies at all airports across Canada.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 02:34
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if there is snow on the runways they are plowed and sweepers are towed behind the plow truck. the object is to keep the surface as "dry as possible". Urea is only used if there is freezing precipitation because using it on snow causes slush and standing water to form on the surface which degrades A/C T/O performance. The term "de-ice refers to spraying hot water to melt ice and the term anti-ice refers to applying glycol.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 07:51
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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US military used to have electrical heating installed believe it or not, Brize used to have it, but these days you use granular or liquids, rather like on the roads

http://www.aero-sense.com/de-icing-c...E#.WmretC_fWrU
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 09:24
  #72 (permalink)  

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The state of the runway is a red herring. Unlike Munich (for those old enough), this aircraft got airborne. OK, it may have taken less runway, but that would only have moved the crash site slightly closer to the airfield. Until the accident report is available, the lawyers are really just clutching at straws. Once the facts are know, then perhaps there is a case; but perhaps not.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 14:38
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Herod
Your 100 % Correct. The lawyer is using the shotgun approach to this case. Blast a shot out there and if it hits someone then there responsible.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 18:07
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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But it might also alert the defence team that their antagonist is ignorant of the specialist environment, and thus a weak opponent: or could that be a sting manoeuvre?
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 22:55
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Not really - it's standard procedure when submitting a lawsuit to name anyone and everyone who might possibly be involved. It's way easier to drop someone from the suit then to add someone.
Besides, they want to make sure they get the 'deep pockets' - even if they are found to only be 1% responsible they can actually pay it - getting a multi-million dollar settlement against someone who is bankrupt doesn't help...
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 23:54
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Herod View Post
.... perhaps there is a case; but perhaps not.
No. There is a case. An aircraft crashed. Innocent, paying passengers were maimed. They suffered physical and other injuries. The have current and future losses. One was killed. The legal system will determine who is accountable. But there's a solid case. It's only a question of who's negligent, who failed to meet the very high duty of care required of common carriers and who will pay for the damages suffered by the victims.

Last edited by voyageur9; 26th Jan 2018 at 23:57. Reason: typos
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 08:15
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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The Transportation Safety Board of Canada has issued an investigation report (A17C0146) into this crash. It states in part that:

During the descent, the aircraft encountered icing conditions and the anti-icing and de-icing systems were activated. When the de-icing and anti-icing systems were turned off, residual ice remained on portions of the aircraft.

The aircraft stayed at the Fond-du-Lac Airport to board new passengers and cargo.

The operator, West Wind Aviation, had some de-icing equipment in the terminal building (see photos) at the airport. The de-icing equipment that was available to WestWind Aviation in Fond-du-Lac consisted of two ladders, a hand-held spray bottle with electric blanket and wand, and a container of de-icing fluid. However, the aircraft was not de-iced before takeoff, and the takeoff was commenced with ice contamination on the aircraft.

The Report can be found at Aviation Investigation A17C0146 - Transportation Safety Board
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 16:27
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Technically, it's not the report, it's an "update". The preamble says:
The following update contains facts that the TSB has been able to validate at this time. It contains no conclusions about the factors that contributed to the occurrence. The final investigation report will include an analysis of all relevant factors and provide the Board's findings.
There are of course, some aspects of the "facts" that one could easily speculate/extrapolate into something causal...
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 17:12
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Almost unbelievable that a Canadian operator would not have the most basic of proper de-icing equipment, which a handheld spray bottle is most certainly not.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 17:18
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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You haven't operated up north, have you?
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