Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Cherokee control failure in flight

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Cherokee control failure in flight

Old 9th Mar 2016, 16:35
  #1 (permalink)  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,644
Received 76 Likes on 50 Posts
Cherokee control failure in flight

This thread:

AVCANADA ? View topic - Failure of T-Bar Control Column in Cherokee on Approach

is a worthy read for Cherokee operators.

We'll continue to shy away from linking to other aviation chat sites in general, but in the interest of safety, and knowing the prevalence of Cherokees in the UK, I thought this one was a worthy link.
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2016, 19:50
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Crikey . Don't know if I wanted to know that.
thing is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2016, 20:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pilot DAR and I discussed this and felt it really deserved propagation and declared such issues as open house topics to pass on - if nothing else to prepare folks for any potential service bulletins.

Rob
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2016, 21:59
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Langley, BC. Canada
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
P.I.C. of C-GQPN

Good Afternoon from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Home airport CYAV (St. Andrews). As the PIC of the Cherokee in question I want to thank the PPrune member who posted the link to my AVCanada entry. Prior to posting on AVCanada, I queried, "Cherokee T-Bar failure" on the Internet to no avail. There simply was no information on the Internet about such a failure. Notwithstanding the fact that the Canadian Transportation Safety Board is conducting its investigation, I believe it is only prudent that we pilots protect each other and get the word out about this control column failure. I was pleasantly surprised to see the PPRUNE link entry to the AVCanada site forum entry. Thank you for looking out for the best interests and safety of Cherokee owners and pilots. PilotDAR Thanks. I suspect you are the one who disseminated the information. Good Job. AKA:Countryman

Last edited by Canadian_horseman; 9th Mar 2016 at 22:17. Reason: grammar, AVCanada ID
Canadian_horseman is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2016, 03:22
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Langley, BC. Canada
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
3rd T-Bar Assembly Passes NDT Testing

UPDATE

I just received word that a third T-Bar control assembly PASSED its NDT inspection. This particular assembly came out of a Cherokee with 13,000 hours. I am not sure how this successful test is going influence the future actions of the TSB and/or the Piper Aircraft Corporation. However it does shed a little of positive light on a disturbing situation. Submitted for your information and benefit.
Canadian_horseman is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2016, 14:06
  #6 (permalink)  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,644
Received 76 Likes on 50 Posts
Some aircraft came with Flight Manuals which provided an approved procedure for landing without elevator control. I know that many Cessna manuals have it, but I do not have any recent Piper manuals to review. I've had a look through the regs, but cannot find the reference on the regulation side. For those with access to a later model Cherokee Flight Manual, it might be worth a look in Section 3 to see if this procedure has been presented. It seems like a recent awareness of this procedure could be timely right now.
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2016, 01:43
  #7 (permalink)  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,644
Received 76 Likes on 50 Posts
I was looking in the wrong area of the FARs:

(e) By using normal flight and power controls, except as otherwise noted in paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(2) of this section, it must be possible to establish a zero rate of descent at an attitude suitable for a controlled landing without exceeding the operational and structural limitations of the airplane, as follows:
(1) For single-engine and multiengine airplanes, without the use of the primary longitudinal control system.
It's a requirement that it be possible in the plane, it's not a requirement to publish how, but Cessna does. But, to be clear, it doesn't say that you can do the controlled landing, just you can get to the plane to zero descent there! Worthy of a bit of careful practice, particularly for Cherokee pilots right now!
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2016, 02:36
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Langley, BC. Canada
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Control descend without use of Primary Longditudinal controls

Thanks PilotDAR. It is something I am going to gently insert into my approaches with my students, although they are usually already trimmed for gentle descent anyway. What I will do now, on calm days, is have them not touch the control column until just about in the flare. I am sure it will be a non-event for them as we basically fly our approaches that way anyway. Thanks for providing the information for us. I am sure it tooks some digging in the FAR to find it.
Canadian_horseman is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2016, 20:21
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,783
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
At my biennial "hour flight with an instructor", in a Pa38, it was suggested just after lift-off on a circuit that I tried it on trimmer, throttle, rudder. I managed it, and only used the yoke after round out. Otherwise the landing would certainly been walk-away, and probably taxi-away.
The dual student following us in the circuit must have been horrified at the standard of flying acceptable for qualified PPLs.
PS The Jodel DR1050 would have to touch down at high speed, due to loss of trim authority at normal approach speed.
Maoraigh1 is online now  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 03:27
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Langley, BC. Canada
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
UPDATE: Good Evening from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada everyone. Well, it took 10 months, but here is Transport Canada Civil Aviation Safety Alert on this matter.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...s-2016-14.html
Canadian_horseman is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.