Recent Cirrus 'chute deployment
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Recent Cirrus 'chute deployment
Former Walmart CEO Bill Simon saves plane with emergency parachute landing - CBS News
Another Cirrus 'chute deployment... There's a video I'm trying to find and post. If someone else finds it, please feel free to post...
Another Cirrus 'chute deployment... There's a video I'm trying to find and post. If someone else finds it, please feel free to post...
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Interesting to see that he was hit by a truck as he landed, I do wonder if the chute is really better than gliding down, can't see you have much control where you go with the chute, though maybe glide to a safe place (not over a road!) then use it is a good way to go, but otherwise I think I would be saving it for things like a midair/ structural failure.
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Looking at the available FR24 data, I am confused. Did the pilot deploy the chute at 7.000ft already? Why? I would assume you stay in control for as long as possible, steer away from whatever you can and then pull the trigger? Was there something else happening, other to the reported lack of oil pressure?
It's another option and it's good to have options. It does seem many of these folks just pull the red handle and hang on. He was losing oil pressure so it was a simple engine failure. Heard he was returning to the airport and figured he couldn't make it back. Hard to say without seeing what options he had in the area.
I was surprised by the amount of oscillation during the descent
At 9000' and ATC give him an airfield 10 miles away??
9,000ft = 1.48nm.
Therefore at 9:1 the glide range in still air is 13nm, or at 10 miles in still air, you'd be down - flown well - to about 2000ft.
If it was downwind, that should be pretty straightforward to fly.
Not that I wouldn't have preferred something a bit closer meself !
Cirrus company teaching as most people know is to just pull the handle - although I can't help feel that he might have done himself a favour by first positioning the aircraft so it would come down in open ground, rather than into a connurbation. That option must have been there for him.
Other side of the coin - nobody's dead, and Cirrus can build him another aeroplane.
G
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From the thread running on COPA: it appears that what actually happened is that the pilot had a genuine oil leak and was getting vectors for an emergency landing. The engine died when he was on a three mile final and (rightly) he did not believe he could glide in and pulled the chute.
That's why the aircraft is swinging below the chute in the video.
This incident is similar in many ways to a Cirrus fatal accident some years ago when a pilot with engine failure made the decision to try to stretch the glide in similar circumstances and sadly didn't make it.
From an earlier thread:
As best we can establish at the moment: that corresponds quite closely to what this pilot did.
That's why the aircraft is swinging below the chute in the video.
This incident is similar in many ways to a Cirrus fatal accident some years ago when a pilot with engine failure made the decision to try to stretch the glide in similar circumstances and sadly didn't make it.
Cirrus company teaching as most people know is to just pull the handle - although I can't help feel that he might have done himself a favour by first positioning the aircraft so it would come down in open ground, rather than into a connurbation. That option must have been there for him.
The CAPS, by the way - it's there, and going through the training material, there really isn't anything there I could find saying "as soon as you're unhappy, pull the handle". There were many points where the advice was along the lines of "do this, do that, consider whether you should pull the handle", then do the following if you didn't". Engine failures were treated in that way for example - establish glide - pick field - position - decide if you're going to manage - if not pull handle - if you can land carry on and do so.
We also talked through the whole "pull early, pull often" phrase, which: going through the training material: basically meant that if the aircraft is out of control pull the handle before the aeroplane passes out of the safe operation envelope, and when any emergencies are going on, always go through the question of whether you should be using CAPS. Frankly, I can't fault any of that - it's pretty much the same as military training with regard to an ejector seat.
We also talked through the whole "pull early, pull often" phrase, which: going through the training material: basically meant that if the aircraft is out of control pull the handle before the aeroplane passes out of the safe operation envelope, and when any emergencies are going on, always go through the question of whether you should be using CAPS. Frankly, I can't fault any of that - it's pretty much the same as military training with regard to an ejector seat.
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Report is out.
Personally, I would suggest in this situation of oil pressure loss, to maintain altitude as long as possible while heading toward the airport. That way, if the engine fails, you have more options. The engine failed about three miles from the airport. If still at ten thousand feet, one might be able to join an ILS onto final and glide down along it or have a long runway in sight that can easily be landed on without deploying the chute. If you get down low and then lose the engine, you will have no options in terms of avoiding damage of some sort.
Personally, I would suggest in this situation of oil pressure loss, to maintain altitude as long as possible while heading toward the airport. That way, if the engine fails, you have more options. The engine failed about three miles from the airport. If still at ten thousand feet, one might be able to join an ILS onto final and glide down along it or have a long runway in sight that can easily be landed on without deploying the chute. If you get down low and then lose the engine, you will have no options in terms of avoiding damage of some sort.
Last edited by tcasblue; 19th Sep 2021 at 17:11.
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 19th Sep 2021 at 17:16.
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With that, ILS G/S intercept will be very difficult. A localizer approach may be more fitting to this situation, with all step-downs doubled (but in AGL!) and communicated to ATC.
So with that in mind, I personally think it is safer to pull the chute in IMC, rather than re-designing the approach plate for a 6-degree descent, under the pressure of an ongoing emergency.
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Maybe https://xavion.com/app/full-description/ would be worth a look?
No personal experience, but publicity videos look promising for providing a 'pathway through the sky' on an iPad using aircraft performance coupled with live weather/wind to give IFR guidance following engine failure to a reachable airfield (if there is one)..
No personal experience, but publicity videos look promising for providing a 'pathway through the sky' on an iPad using aircraft performance coupled with live weather/wind to give IFR guidance following engine failure to a reachable airfield (if there is one)..
Last edited by xtp; 21st Sep 2021 at 21:28.
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In VMC, yes, in IMC, a little more tricky. We need a 20:1 engine out glide ratio to maintain a 3 degree glide path. Most small singles have only 10-to-1 ratio, so it will be double of the regular decent ange, at 6 degrees.
With that, ILS G/S intercept will be very difficult. A localizer approach may be more fitting to this situation, with all step-downs doubled (but in AGL!) and communicated to ATC.
So with that in mind, I personally think it is safer to pull the chute in IMC, rather than re-designing the approach plate for a 6-degree descent, under the pressure of an ongoing emergency.
With that, ILS G/S intercept will be very difficult. A localizer approach may be more fitting to this situation, with all step-downs doubled (but in AGL!) and communicated to ATC.
So with that in mind, I personally think it is safer to pull the chute in IMC, rather than re-designing the approach plate for a 6-degree descent, under the pressure of an ongoing emergency.
I agree with your info about glide ratio and glide slope. One might want to fly well above the glide slope on approach or choose the ILS with the tailwind.
This accident pilot gave up much of his extra energy while still having power, by descending and ending up low when nearing an airport with a long runway. That left him with much less options.
Then the chute was pulled and someone on the ground was seriously injured.
Perhaps he wanted to reduce power to potentially extend engine operation for a few extra minutes but having a parachute changes the dynamics of your options.
One never knows potential alternative outcomes, but there were good odds that he could have made the airport which was reporting clear skies and had a long runway. If he had maintained a higher altitude, he might have been able to glide down to an easy landing on the runway once power was lost.
Be cautious about giving up your energy.
Last edited by tcasblue; 24th Sep 2021 at 23:48.
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Maybe https://xavion.com/app/full-description/ would be worth a look?
No personal experience, but publicity videos look promising.
No personal experience, but publicity videos look promising.
Last edited by tcasblue; 22nd Sep 2021 at 12:42.
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Sounds most likely he forgot to switch tanks and ran one dry, then didn’t turn on the boost pump which means a longer time for a restart(or none at all).
An Vans crashed near here recently that was similar. The pilot concentrated too much on making a novice passenger have a memorable flight and made it a memorable flight.
Getting in the habit of occasional general scans with brief focus on important items can be helpful.
An Vans crashed near here recently that was similar. The pilot concentrated too much on making a novice passenger have a memorable flight and made it a memorable flight.
Getting in the habit of occasional general scans with brief focus on important items can be helpful.
