Nobody goes to work thinking, “Today I will screw up and see how close to the ground I can get”. Yes, the pilots messed up in the above incidents and got a perfectly serviceable aeroplane too close to the ground. In order to stop it happening again we need to go back and find out why they messed up. Fatigue, training, ATC, experience- any or all of those things could be factors. I hope accident and incident investigation has progressed from the days when it could all be put down to ‘Pilot Error, case closed’.