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Old 11th Oct 2017, 19:37
  #53 (permalink)  
BARKINGMAD
 
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Who mentioned short field landings?

C'mon folks, concentrate?

Read my original post and then work forwards from when jet transports were landed close to the threshold with minimal additions to Vref/Vapp until the current scene where 300 metres of paved runway real estate are wasted and for some odd reason a headwind is regarded as a special case requiring extra knots of IAS even though shear/turbulence is NOT a factor.

Probably I'm biased as my first post-military job was the Bae146 where the manual clearly stated "in order to make the scheduled landing distance...cross the landing threshold at Vref (airbrakes fully deployed) aiming to touchdown at Vref-7kts". Yes, that hyphen was a minus sign!

Whilst I appreciate the Boeings various may not use airbrakes whilst airborne, my abiding memory of transitioning onto the 74s and then 73s is that flying even at Vref over the landing threshold caused apoplexy amongst trainers and experienced capts, so that the only way to avoid criticism was to arrive at the threshold with minimum Vref+5kts and then everyone was happy.

Which has left me wondering why Boeing mentions Vref at all if it's never used. I suspect a ruse to get the paper Vref down to such a value in order to allow the approach Category of the 'frame to be listed as 1 below where it belonged.

There may now follow much discussion of 1 point something the stalling speed in the particular configuration depending on whose airworthiness or XAA regulations one is following, all I'm asking is a reasonable explanation of why the world's overruns are littered with disasters whereas the odd undershoot doesn't seem to feature in the stats. Please don't quote the San Fran disaster, they were just exploring a place all competent jocks wouldn't dream of going!

Maybe the airports' runway inspection routines may show up some inadvertent early (short of 300m) tyre marks but I would suggest this is less likely to happen if the guilty drivers had the orifice-puckering sensation of rocks/grass/gravel/lights/beach underneath them as they aim for the proper medium category transport touchdown point?

Still awaiting the comparison of stats to disprove the old adage that "there's nothing as useless as...the runway you've left behind".

But in the bright new dawn of the 21st century there are old lessons in aviation which are being forgotten.

In summary, the original posting asked about 737 overruns and I'm posing "why so fast and why so far in?" And we haven't even got to the tailwinds cases!

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