Wow!
Clunckdriver, I do not know what reason might drive you to spout such venom, but for the benefit of other readers, I am going to set you straight.
Everything I am going to write here was stated during the CTA hearings that were public and that can be viewed here:
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day1-1-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day1-2-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day2-1-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day2-2-eng.php
Your first post.
Originally Posted by
clunckdriver
Air Transat are talking total bollocks when it comes to the true situation, We can only hope that the "experts" running the enquiry don't allow the total bull spouted by them is given any credence. If indeed they were denied refueling "on the runway", how come the other aircraft didn't have such problems ?{our aircraft included!} The would be well advised to shut up on the fiction and come clean with the truth rather than dig a deeper hole for themselves!r
Six aircraft were parked on taxiway C, west of the active runway when the terminal is east. The aircraft parked there were not only told that they could not be refueled there, but that no services whatsoever could be provided while there: no air stairs, no GPU, no catering, no fuel. On top o fit, all these flights were international flights that had not cleared Canada Customs. Any service would require not only the permission but the presence of Canada Customs. The aircraft were informed that they would have to be moved to the north ramp before any service was provided. The six aircraft were parked there about 1.5 to 2 hours.
Then one of the six, Air Canada 865, a B777 from London, was given refueling priority by the YOW airport authority after Air Canada informed the YOW airport authority that they were tight on duty. AC865 had been in the air 7 hours and 28 minutes before landing in YOW.
Three Air Transat flights had landed in YOW ahead of AC865.
TS711 had been in the air 7 hours and 39 minutes.
TS157 had been in the air 8 hours and 10 minutes
TS445 had been in the air 8 hours and 45 minutes.
(The above arrival times and flight times are from FlighAware)
Yet the YOW airport authority provided an escort to the fueller so that he could access AC865 where he was parled on taxiway C and it was refueled, as the other 5 aircraft that waited there to be moved to the North Ramp.
The fueller, in his testimony stated that they only had two drivers to fuel the 20 diversions plus the regular YOW flights and that the AC865 refueling operation alone had monopolized one of the two drivers for a full 45 minutes (these aircraft were all taking just minimum fuel to reach YYZ or YOW, 30 minutes flying away).
So when after 1.5 to two hours, when the six aircraft stuck on taxiway C were allowed to move, five of them had to taxi to the north ramps to go for fuel, while the AC865, taxied to the departure runway and left. They were giving priority when the crew's duty duty time was likely no more critical than the five others that were in the same predicament. Air Transat 157 landed at 1708 and arrived at the North Ramp around 1910. Over three hours later.
How is that for some truth ?
Your second post :
Originally Posted by
clunckdriver
Notfred, its incredibly simple, the airline has a dispatch organisation, the pilot requests the fuel load needed, or dispatch works it out, the fuel is loaded, the flight plan filed, the clearance is issued and away the flight goes, HOWEVER, its a good idea for the aircraft to have electrical power so they can use the radio, if not use a cell phone, on top of this the operator should have enough funds to pay for the fuel! and a pilot capable of clearly notifying dispatch and ATC, the inquiry will we hope see just how many of these actions were done by the rew/dispatch/management, somehow I suspect that we are about to see the usual bull being spouted by various members of Transat!
The flight plans were made, the fuel loads were requested, but all aircraft were told that no fueling would take place until the aircraft were moved to to the north ramp.
The Air Transat 157, after holding over YUL, diverting to YOW and holding again, had to declare a fuel emergency and landed after flying for 8 hours and 10 minutes. The emergency services were there to meet it on landing. Despite that low fuel situation, TS157 was kept on taxiway C for two hours on APU power. It was then it was forced to move to the North ramp, under its own power and made to stay idle a long time with engines running while the airport was playing musical chairs with the aircraft. The taxi from the taxiway C to the north apron took about 30 minutes. It was parked around 1910,
It was later asked to move again.
The YOW duty manager was the one calling the shots from a Follow-me car on the the ground frequency, since the YOW ramps are uncontrolled.
During that whole time, TS157 was running out of fuel and kept advising First Air, the ground handler, who kept stating, after talking to the YOW Airport Authority and to the fueller, that the fuel would be forthcoming once the aircraft was parked at a place where it could be fueled 30 minutes was the number always used). Never were they told that the delay to get parked and refueled would be any longer than 45 minutes.
After arriving at the North ramp, the YOW airport authority again intervened with the fueller, on behalf of KLM this time, who had also stated that they were running out of duty time. So KLM was refueled ahead of the three Transat flights that had landed before it and whose duty time was equal to or longer than that experienced by the KLM crew (the three Transat flights had arrived from BRU, MRS and CDG)
Then the fueller stated that some of the aircraft (he did not state which) had to be bypassed in their refuelling sequence because the YOW airport authority had parked them with their refuelling ports over the grass where the fuel truck were not allowed to position. These aircraft had to be moved a second time, again under their own power, in order to be refuelled.
Then you continue :
Originally Posted by
clunckdriver
For those who watched the Air Transat nonsense I'm sure that they had a very bad speech writer hired to write such drivel, the smart move would have been to "fess up" and do better next time, our local travel agent will not be using them "ever again" to quote her! When will big companies learn to tell the truth and do better next time? As for our politicians, they are certainly not the folks who should be running this investigation, the lack the ethics and knowledge for such a task!
You obviously did not watch the hearings.......
What politicians are running the investigation exactly ?
And finally:
Originally Posted by
clunckdriver
Nolinitholden, your charges against the airport staff are total bolocks, at no time were such requests made in time to get the flight on its way, its only the arrival of the police which eventually got things moving, the whole mess up is a reflection of a second rate organisation and total lack of leadership and initiative displayed by the flight deck crew, an examination of the radio logs makes interesting reading I'm sure!{, that is if they still exist! }And by the way, we diverted at roughly the same time, we returned to CYUL about one hour after diverting, fueled, provisions provided along with a crew who knew how to handle such situations!
The 20 diverted flights all needed one thing: fuel. Some were parked at narrow body gates where fuel was quickly immediately provided (like AC and Rouge narrow bodies), but others like the four AT flights were parked where fuelling was not possible (except for that Air Canada flight that was refuelled on taxiway C).
All this parking space management was under the responsibility of one single authority: The Ottawa Airport authority.
Unlike what the Press and some passengers reported about TS157, the Air Conditioning was on for about the first 3 and 1/2 hours on the ground until the APU quit for lack of fuel.
When the APU quit, the air stair had already been installed and the fueller had arrived. The captain was under the aircraft trying to help the fueller refuel on battery power alone, since not GPU had been installed yet.
That is when the 911 call was made and the emergency services arrived. The captain had to stop tending the aircraft to respond to the emergency services and had no idea why they were there. When the emergency crews y came up the stairs and asked who needed the emergency services, no one came forward. The caller only identified himself when his phone number was read over the PA. He then said he called because he felt faint when the APU quit and the aircraft lighting dimmed when it became powered by the emergency lighting. He then changed his story and said he called because he felt the passengers were going to panic. They took his pulse and vitals etc and asked him if he wanted to disembark. He refused. The 911 called stayed on board with his family untl the flight made is to YUL.
All passengers refused to disembark when offered to do so at that time by the emergency services.
The GPU and the Air Start Unit arrived, the fueling was completed and the captain had to ask the emergency crews to leave the aircraft and move their vehicles out of the way so that he could get the engines started.
I downloaded all the communications from LIVEATC which I have on my computer and will share them with anyone who needs them..
None of the Transat aircraft ran out of water. That was also an invention of the passengers of the press.
By the way, out of the 20 aircraft that diverted to YOW that day, the second longest, after the Air Transat 157 that was on the ground 5 hours and 51 minutes, was Air Canada 318, which landed at 1715 and only took off at 2221, 5 hours and 6 minutes later. But it didn't run out of fuel.......
And that aircraft didn't offload its passengers either.
The reason for the enquiries, was that the CTA received complaints that Air Transat had violated the Tariff, which requires that passengers delayed on the ground for more than 90 minutes be allowed to deplane.
When the Air Transat counselor was questioning the YOW airport authority manager, she asked him how many aircraft had diverted to YOW that day. He replied 20.
She then asked him how many of those aircraft had departed inside of the 90 minutes allowed by the Tariff. He replied he did not know. After consulting the records, he replied "two".
She then asked him how many were on the ground for over three hours, and after consulting the records he replied replied "8".
Note that three of the Air Transat flights were parked about two hours on the taxiway C, where even an air stair was not allowed to the aircraft by the YOW airport authority. So the Tariff was violated while the aircraft were all parked on Taxiway C.
So 18 of the 20 aircraft violated the Tariff that day but only Air Transat was the subject of a hearing that day, because of the complaints of a group of passengers, none of whom wanted to get off the aircraft in YOW when given the opportunity......
Then some passengers in a second Air Transat flight, which had not run out of fuel, decided to complain as well after reading the story in the media.......
This is how this story unfolded.....