Quid - Thanks for the response which recognises that there are many factors at work. I take your point about bank angle and seem to remember it being particularly marked on the B707 (the 400s ?). The remarks on temp and derates I agree are entirely similar to the effects on Vmcg.As for CG--- this I`ve also come across and imagine it being related to yawing moments but what has been taxing the brain is specifically "g". If Skippy and I try to get airborne in the Dak with that rough donk while racking it round to avoid the small arms fire what increment should we add ?. I`m bothered about aeroplanes without AFMs.