Originally Posted by
DOUBLE BOGEY
However the route was generated and whatever it flew them towards there is still the issue of accepting flight over a RADAR return at very low height above the ocean.
Surely the Golden Rule is we shalt not fly over ANYTHING unless we have visual contact with it prior to DR. As such any target in front of us becomes the intermediate destination and the MDH/MDA and DR rules should apply. Or go round it leaving the required safety margin.
The CVR is confusing and not at all clear that they "see" Blackrock" on the RADAR before the impact. Unless I have mistaken this.
DB
As noted in #1535 and #1641, in addition to the, so far,
one and only known 'radar target presence call' by the PM, mentioning the two targets beyond Blackrock, I have not found any other 'radar target presence calls' in the CVR transcript that could be indicating that the crew would have been "seeing" Blackrock on the radar at any stage during approximately the last minute of the flight.
I realise that some may think, I may be going a bit too deep now at this stage, in which case I apologise for that. But, triggered by and in response to your post I wanted to sort out something that is going through my head for quite a while now:
"So far", from the above, I thus assumed that
there would be NO more (when looking for obvious) indications possible that could indicate that Blackrock may have been "seen" on the radar by the crew.
However, the absence of (obvious) indications that Blackrock has been "seen" on the radar by the crew does not necessarily preclude or rule out that
Blackrock may well have been "seen" ON the RADAR by one or maybe both pilots.
The following may also explain two other possibilities
where the:
"just a small little island, that is BLMO itself" remark may have originated from.
Whether valid or not,
we may not exclude and must consider also other than CVR possibilities, possibly indicating that Blackrock may have been seen on the radar: = Seeing the 'Blackrock radar targets presence' indicated or pointed out by unmistakable, noticeable or even just mere
gesture(s) of either crew member. =
Subsequently,
(possibly, if not for the "Altitude! Altitude!" alert or, perhaps even combined with that alert) at least
one of these 'gesture occurrences', if there had been any:
(a) may have been
triggering the:
"just a small little island, that is BLMO itself" remark,
as a response by the PF to a gesture of the PNF towards the radar.
or
(b) may have been
accompanied by the:
"just a small little island, that is BLMO itself" remark, which remark in that case could be considered as a spontaneous
'radar target presence call', by the PF who at the same time was doing the gesturing towards the radar.
In other words:
Equivalent to and instead of 'voicing' a 'radar target presence call', the PM may have drawn the PF's attention, whilst only
pointing with a finger to a target on the radar screen. Which, instead of
(or perhaps in combination with) the
"Altitude! Altitude!" alert, may have
triggered the:
"just a small little island, that is BLMO itself" remark by the PF
as a response.
Even so, also the PF, may have been glancing from a distance on the PM's radar screen or even may have been bending over towards the PM's radar screen, every once in a while, and may also have been
pointing to a target on the radar screen, spontaneously,
as the equivalent of a 'radar target presence call' (so, not triggered by a 'radar target presence call' from the PM) whilst
accompanying this gesture
with the
remark: "just a small little island, that is BLMO itself".
(Again, instead of, or in combination with the "Altitude! Altitude!" alert.)
If either case would have occurred, Blackrock was "seen" as a valid target, but also here the actual elevation had then apparently not been appreciated.
Kind regards, learner . . .