Originally Posted by
Band a Lot
I was banned from the Rumours and News section of this forum as I stated that the Pilot (PIC) is not ultimately responsible until the aircraft moves under its own power (slightly different in countries) - Several Pilots inc a mod disputed that and said they were "In Command" essentially from start of shift or entry in aircraft.
So if they are correct then this order and the following brutality was carried out with the consent of the Captain - I bet those Captains will have some different take on that and blame someone else and not stand up and say sorry I made that call to forcibly remove people on my flight.
OK, firstly. You don't need to explain the United States Constitution to me as I have been studying U.S. history for 40 years, I have several copies of the Constitution including annotated versions and many, many books on the subject including writings by Jefferson and other person(s) intimately involved in the writing of the document. I not only have studied it's content, viewed the original documents but also can recite just about every major item and the relationship between our Constitution (heavily based on the US).
Re the comment that the government is not an airline... with respect, I think you're completely missing my point in that words in a contract go only so far and everyone on here who is saying "Ah, but it says in the CoC..." are similarly ignoring the fact that a court may pay no attention to this at all.
So who cares??? The court will determine the validity of UA's action and the CoC may in fact be irrelevant.
As I write this I see a statement from Dr Dao's Attorney stating that he is filing "...a lawsuit against United for using “unreasonable force and violence” against the passenger."
Lawyers will usually file on every count they think they can get a result on and this lawyer appears to have totally ignored any irregularity v.v. the CoC and the removal and has totally focused his attention on the violent removal. This tells me he considers the CoC and the fact of the removal being required as moot.
No mention of the ticket, the Conditions of Carriage or anything contractual. As I said in my initial post, the case will likely focus on the manner in which the passenger was removed and lo and behold that's what his lawyer is doing.
You were banned for stating something that is law in many jurisdictions??? I find that pathetic... I'm assuming those that complained felt it challenged their 'Jesus' status??? How can they be responsible from sign on when they don't know the registration of the aircraft - how ludicrous and if you were banned for that I find that quite thin-skinned by a mod.
One of the reasons ground personnel are instructed to remain and ensure stairs and other GSE are manned is in case the aircraft encounters an issue on pushback and I was always taught precisely what you stated that once the aeroplane moves under its own power that's when it starts. My question would have been "when does the CVR start operating then, while the Captain is still in the crew room???"