Originally Posted by
Ida down
If a stand by crew were called out, then Ground should have known that a couple of hours before flight, and with a full A/C, picked out four FF/last on, told them they were off loaded, but standby for no shows.No boarding passes issued. If still no seats, offer an alternate flight, with an upgrade. Not board them, then drag one down the isle, like a drunken footballer, and chuck him off the bus. Most flight crew would be appalled by the behaviour, and the Skipper had every right to intervene, had he/she witnessed the disgraceful behaviour of police, man handling this innocent bloke. I would have chucked them off, and let ground have it, bigtime, before I departed anywhere.
But would you actually have a legal right to do so - perhaps a moral right but my understanding is that the Captain's responsibility is very defined in terms of commencement and conclusion and doesn't include telling the ground staff how to do their jobs. While working for an airline some time back, a passenger had attempted to hide a way oversized cabin bag at check in. We had informed the passenger clearly she had to check it in or it would not be carried. She was again told at the gate so she disappeared and re-appeared at the end of boarding. We removed the bag and tagged it to be carried but determined it would delay the flight to put it on this flight. The Captain refused to depart until we loaded the bag and wasn't the slightest bit interested in the background situation. We ended up having to comply because we didn't want to have the aeroplane sit there all day but I made it quite clear and gave the Captain 'what for' before departure because he had absolutely no right to instruct my staff and myself how to do our jobs. Because of his uninformed and interfering, that passenger will likely always take an oversized bag to the gate because she did it this time, was properly advised the bag would now not be carried but in her experience all she has to do is kick up a fuss and the Captain will override everyone else. This is no different to the Captain 'hearing' that Cargo have offloaded a shipment that arrived late and demanding it be carried. None of the Crew's business. Sorry, but had I been the ADM, I would not have allowed the removal to take place in such a manner in the first place but I certainly never allowed crew to dictate to ground personnel when they were reasonably performing their jobs within the rules of the company. There were certainly situations where, making it clear I didn't 'report' to the Captain, I may well have gone and initiated a discussion on a matter that I was not entirely comfortable with and that may have been outside the 'rules' (not safety or security) and sought his/her advice but as a general rule, when crew start dictating 'if you don't do this I'll do that' such as the circumstance above, then that crosses a line in my view. Not being belligerent either on at least one occasion I was personally questioned for providing a piece of information to a PIC that I felt he was entitled to have and to seek his advice. The manager at the time asked me why I did that - it could have caused a delay to which I replied "I don't care, the Captain had the right to know that information". I think it all works best when everyone respects each others role and acts accordingly. I don't know any ground staff, let alone technical crew that would have stood for the way that passenger was treated in any airline I've worked for...