Originally Posted by
n5296s
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If you can't fly 1.3Vs safely and without risk of stalling/spinning, get some instruction until you can. Sure, at LAX I could cross the threshold at 140 KIAS (Vle), float halfway to Hawaii, and still land safely. Not such a good idea at my usual airport with its 2300 foot runway.
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As for KayPam's comments, if you teach people how to land on a short field at 1.3Vs, why is it good to then insist people land at 1.5Vs+? Better that they know how to land at a reasonable speed when one day they need to. Otherwise the day they have to get into a 2000' runway, or need it put it down in a field, it's MUCH more likely that they will stall or otherwise mess up seriously.
This above is exactly my opinion.
The problem with airclubs asking us PPL pilots to land at 1.5Vs is that we don't train for shorter airfield. And what is their solution ? Mandatory specific training with an FI before landing at a short airfield
This is why proper PPL pilots should take a step back and think for themselves : why is my airclub asking me to land at 1.5Vs, which problems does it cause, and what can I do to solve them ?
And following this type of reasoning, I decided to train for all situations during my solo hours building.
(Actually, this sort of thinking started for me when I first flew at an airclub who did not have any minimum fuel policy after having flown at an airclub that had a full tanks takeoff policy. I wondered what were the reasons for these rules and figured out the basic ones)
Originally Posted by
Step Turn
This seems to be the beginning point of some failings in pilot skill. Groups of people who think they know better, (based upon their own possible heritage of inexperience) than the aircraft manufacturer who wrote, and had approved as a part of the type design, a Flight Manual. This important document describes how to best fly the aircraft. Government regulation which will state that the pilot shall refer to this manual while flying the aircraft.
Well I would have to agree with that.
As I said, in my first airclub, we had a full tank takeoffs policy.
When I first flew at another airfield, with different available means for refuelling, this fuel policy was rather the opposite. And even though I knew there was enough fuel, I was not at ease with the legal minimums.
So obviously the reason for the full tanks policy was to reduce the likeliness of fuel exhaustion. But the negative side-effect is to train pilots who won't be at ease flying with normal amounts of fuel !
So I did what I had to do, I got used to flying with the legal minimums (+ margins if required), as should be normally done.
I have to admit I would be shocked at the speed figure getting out of a perfect 1.3 Vs calculation for the mass of the day..
On the aircraft I fly, the usual landing speed is 120km/h (robin DR400-120)
The stalling speed for full flaps 0° and MTOW is 83km/h. So that is 1.45Vs
If I fly at a mass 20% lower than MTOW, my stalling speed is 10% lower than the figure above : 75 km/h. So 120 is 1.6Vs (here is the value I was talking about!)
So 100 km/h would be 1.33Vs : an appropriate multiplication of Vs.
However this value sounds tremendously low for me.
It is under the "short landing speed" given by the airclub. And I even believe that the stall indicator would ring almost constantly during the approach at this speed. (it rings higher on my club's aircraft than on my previous one)
I started to train at age 14 believing that this aircraft could not approach below 110km/h. Or 100km/h in case of emergency. So it is hard to get that idea out of my head.
Plus, what happens if the ASI is wrong ? People who would reproach a pilot with overrunning a runway will also reproach a pilot for stalling on approach to a long airfield. They are going to say that they had good reasons for recommending 1.5Vs approaches (such as ASI imprecision) on their long home-airfield.
Would you agree on taking into account the Vs reduction due to mass ?
If not, then you end up with 110km/h, which is the "short landing speed".
I fly another type at the correct 1.3Vs speed (even though my airclub recommends 1.5), and unsurprisingly, it is much easier to land with the proper pitch up attitude.