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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 15:45
  #170 (permalink)  
AnFI
 
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Lala
1 You are effectively correct with a few small clarifications it's not so much that the whole blade anywhere in the disk stalls more that there is a CLmax for the whole disk, it's quite 'soft' because as some parts of the disk reduce the lift they can make other parts still have tha capacity to increase. So it's like the whole disk plateaus

2 and that will happen at more or less a CA that is not dependant on RRPM* so effectively there is a CAmax ie 'UCA'

3 why they don't flap down again there are considerations of whether they do and that could give rise to another vibration mode where that sets up an oscillation but lets leave that complication out of it the 'softness' of the arrival at CLmax refered to above should answer that well

4 sorry it hasn't been easy for me either !

(just saw, crossed post, about speed, that is delt with by the curve that NL kindly posted, Ct/Sigma)


Punt thank you

1 yes coning increases for a helicopter with a constant weight as the RRPM is reduced, but that is not what we are saying here (though some seem to think that's what it is). What we are saying was illustrated by the example of taking a light helicopter and reducing it's RRPM until it is at CLmax (measure THAT coning angle) Increase RRPM and add weight to the helicopter such that the heli remains at CLmax , measure the CA at those increased weights and we see that they are about the same. ie Coning angle is independant of RRPM, but not independant of CL which is why there is increased coning in your example. Your example has a changing CL (this was the point Ascend Charlie perceptively identified, but was lost in the noise) (it's only an example for illustration of the point, there are other qualifiers, not important for this purpose)

2 I think designers are aware of this and maybe we'll hear from one. They do at least need to know what coning they should accommodate (pitch links etc) some people presume that there are upper flapping stops, (maybe some types actually have them?)

3 sure BUT careful here it's not always the RRPM droop at this overpitching, if there is sufficient energy available we don't get an RRPM drop but we still get a CLmax (at about the UCA) this is the surprise to a pilot that thinks maxing out is allways indicated by RRPM droop. You don't have to be drooping RRPM to have reached the limit of how much g you can pull. (try 30degrees pitch up per second at 120kts in an Apache for instance). Therein is an important point.

4 I know he did, but I think that if he had a moment of clarity he might agree that it in fact does, hopefully
( I thinking he is thinking about Coning in the context of reduced RRPM, like you were, whereas really it 'doesn't matter' how you get to that Coning Angle, whether by low RRPM to reach CLmax, or with the normal RRPM and CLmax for any other reason, like pulling g).

we are really talking about circumstances where you do not run out of energy to fund the manoeuver, but the idea still holds



hope that helps? as Crab kindly said "the pig is getting tired"


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