PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Non-transponder access to Class E+TMZ airways
Old 6th Oct 2016, 20:09
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airwave45
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Aberfreeze or the Sandpit
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The "It's _not_ an airway" comment is just that, it is not an airway.
It is class G if you are squawking (with slight changes to VMC minima.)
You don't need permission to be in it, you don't have to tell anyone you are in it.
As long as your transponder is on, that's it, treat it as Class G. (slight change in VMC minima)

We, through politeness, tend to speak to Scottish, prior to entry as they do like to treat it as "An Airway"
I have informed controllers that I'll be entering and been met with "That is approved" even though I neither need nor have asked for approval.
Custom and practice locally means that it really is being treated as an airway, which baffles non locals who have actually read the rules and don't understand why we are behaving this way.

The reality is that P600 is easier to get across than N560, even though the traffic levels differ hugely.

E+ is a cluster from start to finish, it bewilders non locals, as do the types of service on offer in Class G.
The daily bemusement of non local crews when offered a choice of service _should_ make it obvious that the wheel is being reinvented here when there is currently a perfectly serviceable wheel in use elsewhere already.

The inability to vector traffic into Class G requires a rewrite of local UK rules to allow that; not the invention of ever more exotic forms of airspace. TMZ mandatory / E+ / Radio mandatory . .
Just vector traffic into class G and be done with it.
Seems to work everywhere else.

All that aside, it would help glider guiders if we knew what controllers want when they ask for our position, We know to the meter where we are, all our flights are recorded in 3 dimensions accurately, we have EFIS systems that show us in 3 dimensions relative to ground features and airspace (I can lurk 100m from any given airway (real ones) or Class D and _know_ that I'm not in them.
I've tried giving my position relative to the VRP's, Relative to decent towns and neither seem to mean much to the controllers, squawking ident works neatly but I don't know how much information you have on your screens or what it shows (If we knew that, we could give you position information that meant something to you, but we don't know what you can see so we are guessing at what you want)

Maybe I should take my glider to the center and rig it so you can see what info normal gliders give to the pilots ?
You could let us know what you can see so that we can give you information that relates to your sphere of reference (although I have the impression that controllers in places like Inverness would get better information from Flight Radar 24 coupled with "Spot the gliders" than they get from the national system . . . (been wrong before tho))
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