Picking up on the SA points made above, obviously a 5th Generation Stealth/y plane has an advantage over a non stealth/y plane with poor SA, the whole argument that a 5th Generation plane will engage at range and that Dog Fighting ability is not important, assuming that your plane has some weapons available.
My question is what happens when two equally SA and Stealth/y planes with equally competent pilots converge on the same piece of the sky, it would seem that there is a possibility that they might only be aware of each other within +/- Dog Fighting range, this brings into question how important it is to be able to dog fight in a 5th Generation plane.
Or put another way, if F22s have been both red and blue in an exercise at what sort of range did they become aware of each other? I am not seeking an exact range but an indication of at what sort of range the tactical map (SA) firms up.