PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Near CFIT because PIC didn't understand FL
Old 20th Apr 2016, 11:15
  #45 (permalink)  
Hawker 800
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AS

Its not got to do with nationalities. Cockups occur in CAT as well as in Private as well as with ATC. As far as I have seen there is no safety benefits over FAA or EASA statistically only harmonisation between the two systems reduces the chance of mistakes

I fail to understand why ATC knowing something was wrong with the understanding of the clearance then recleared the aircraft to FL300 from FL200?

Surely they should have said " Climb immediately to 6000 feet (or whatever) on 1002 (or whatever) Read back
Their reaction was to reclear the aircraft from FL200 to FL300 which hardly indicates anything wrong or urgent

Pace
Pace

This was a CAT flight. I agree though (and I fly for a UK AOC on a Hawker in addition to a bit of 'private' BizJet flying in the same type) that private operators generally have very high standards, often better than AOC operators. Don't think that the majority are cowboys...

ATC cleared them to FL300 and expedite. They were trying to salvage the situation, probably understanding the problem.

The Controller was concerned that the aircraft had levelled out at 2,000 ft and was tracking towards high ground in the Slieve Mish area of Co. Kerry. The controller then instructed the Flight Crew to climb to Flight Level Three Zero Zero and to expedite their climb until they were through four thousand feet.
It could be the very reason that they were not used to FLs at low level that they used that terminology incorrectly
No excuse for not being aware of MSA or local procedures. Even if it was their first trip across the pond, you'd think that their company would have a briefing sheet for Europe and the North Atlantic that they would read. I'll guarantee that they've sat through a Simcom, FSI or CAE International Procedures course. If they'd have listened, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

At 14.36:51 hrs the Flight Crew replied "We were cleared only to Flight Level Two Zero Zero". Shannon Low Level Control persisted "Okay sir that’s copied but your passing altitude...your current altitude". At 14.36:59 hrs the Flight Crew replied "And we confirm that we are cleared up to Flight Level Zero Two Zero… Two Thousand feet".
Worrying. Even more worrying is that the crew were self admittedly confused as to the cleared level, and didn't ask....


According to the Pilot’s Report Form "
Our altitude climb instruction was "climb level Two Hundred". We read back the clearance and began the departure. As we began to climb we had some confusion as to what the altitude clearance limit was as we were unsure what level Two Hundred meant. We levelled at Two Thousand feet to ensure we didn't exceed any altitude limits. We contacted departure control and informed them we were level, they questioned what altitude we were climbing through and we clarified that we were level. There was some question from ATC regarding what altitude we were cleared up to by Kerry and we informed the controller that we were unsure but were level at Two Thousand. He further cleared us to Flight Level Three Zero Zero and to expedite through Four Thousand Five Hundred, and we immediately began climbing. The flight continued on without incident".

Last edited by Hawker 800; 20th Apr 2016 at 11:45.
Hawker 800 is offline