Originally Posted by
Leon Jabachjabicz
Cat Funt
I sincerely disagree that NONE of the sites I mentioned are suitable for winch launching (and I have visited over 50% of these in the last 12 months):
RAF Honington - there is nothing to stop a safe winch launched operation there. The airfield is infrequently used and most of the airfield furniture was either removed or is no longer required.
Dalton Barracks (former RAF Abingdon) - the Army are quite precious about the grass that they use for running around on. However, there is no reason not to use at the weekends. Indeed the Army have embryonic plans to use it for parachuting.
RAF Halton - an extant winch launching site up to 2,000ft AGL.
RAF Henlow - plenty of room from 3 grass runways. There is no reason not to winch off of it.
RAF Odiham - the RAFGSA's Kestrel Gliding Club manages to winch launch quite nicely at this site. The gliding site notifies winch launches to 2,600ft AGL.
RMB Chivenor - no other users now that SAR has gone, plenty of room. There is no requirement for any of the airfield furniture to remain.
RAF Cosford - the RAFGSA's Wrekin Gliding Club manages quite nicely at this site, although it does have a UAS/AEF operating at the same time but Rekin are able to operate concurrently (although seperated). The winch launch site is notified to 3,000ft AGL.
MOD St Athan - plenty of room if using the grass and leaving the tarmac for UAS/AEF. This might be the first 'show stopper' due to the airfield furniture, but if they manage at Odiham and Cosford then why not here?
RAF Topcliffe - plenty of real estate for gliding. No requirement for any airfield furniture.
RAF Linton-on-Ouse - plenty of room on the grass, so same argument as St Athan.
RMB Arbroath - they have been comventionally gliding there for years!!!
Kinloss Barracks (former RAF Kinloss) - there is even a main runway and a parallel taxyway runway to choose from and plenty of grass. The RAFGSA used to winch launch there as the Fulmar Gliding Club.
We could start gliding ops on any of these in days few. Certainly the 5 extra VGS IF we had placed orders for K-21s in late 2014 when the situation was known how much work the Viggis needed. I suspect that the 2012 report had its own agenda and reported sites as unsuitable - non-independent internal reviews do that often. I do have some glider time (more solo than dual - all in K-21s) and so I hope I do know about 'gliding more than the rest of the RAF' (if we want to be that sweeping).
LJ
Leon, perhaps you do know a bit more about gliding than most of the RAF at the moment, but you are certainly flawed in many of your ideas. Take it from myself as a BGA FI that many of these sites are unsuitable.
Honington I don’t know much about and you have valid points about Abingdon, however being army owned I don’t know what state the ground is in, some airfields like RAF Keevil where RAFGSA Bannerdown operate out of cannot use the grass because of the damage caused by military use to the land.
Halton + Odiham + Cosford are GSA sites, from my experience they’re not big fans of ACO operations as first solos can be quite disruptive and communication poor. There’s also the problem as mentioned in quite a few places that mutual operations are now subject to flight test trials by the MAA which cannot occur until VGSs stand up. Plus Cosford can only operate on alternate weekend because of traffic, Odiham does have quite a bit of airfield furniture which heavily restricts the landing area available compared to what you see and Halton isn’t the biggest place for ACO Conventional operations. Remember that the GSA abide by BGA regulations and people who fly there have to get used to the confinements of their sites unlike the VGSs which can land wherever they want in the DLA.
RAF Henlow do have an active flying club which you haven’t taken into account.
MOD St Athan had it’s conventional gliders removed some years ago when the big buildings were built. Odiham and Cosford do not have these problems as there is more space and also Odiham and Cosford do not share themselves regularly with large aircraft. It’s quite easy to see
Chivenor + Topcliffe, Kinloss, who knows what the grass state is like and also where it’d be safe to set up as unless you have actually visited the site you cannot tell what and what isn’t a hazard. Please do remember that though it may be perfectly safe to launch gliders in narrow places, as soon as the cable breaks you have absolutely no control over where the debris lands, I have known Buildings, cars, aircraft and people to get damaged/seriously hurt by winch launching going wrong when the cable breaks.
Linton on Ouse? Wouldn’t work particularly well if any weekday operations were required and also just a look at google maps shows enough airfield furniture to cause a headache. Remember that Air Cadet Gliding operates to very stringent safety standards quite rightly as cadets are being sent solo with not loads of experience, need the safest sites possible.
Arbroath is a great shame and I really don’t understand why that has been wiped off.
K21 mass production is a non starter. Many BGA clubs are ordering some at the moment, my club has had two deliveries in a year and a half because of production for the Australian Air Cadets who aren’t ordering anywhere near as many as you suggest for the ACO. The whole reason the Vanguard T1 was dropped was because Schleicher did not want to open a production line for the Air Cadets, I’d be surprised if that viewpoint has changed, if you visit the Schleicher factory you’ll see it’s a hive of activity producing K21s as well as top competition sailplanes which are in demand and are very valuable to the business of a sailplane manufacturer.
Finally your earlier post about Welsh Gliding sites unfortunately demonstrated your lack of experience in Gliding I’m afraid, I have flown from Lleweni Parc, minimum standards to fly there is Silver C and 100 hours in gliding, hardly suitable for most people below B cat really, it is a soaring site, there is not a gliding club there and the grass is unlandable now, only the runway, huge clutching hand effects on final approach. Talgarth and Rhigos have already been discussed by others here, look at Google Maps for some clear indications of where and where not to set up gliding sites.