Mis-information - well it's a rumour forum afterall!
Rob Rob - very sorry to hear of your loss. Flew the T67 260hp & 160hp versions in flight training role 1998-2009: Military and company operator used full envelope of the machine for much longer with no fatalities. Sent many students solo aerobatics with no issues what-so ever. Apart from roll rate, it was a very good aircraft overall. Landings were actually pretty easy because the large shock absorbers and wide undercarriage track was very forgiving. The Nose gear leg being a separate machining from the engine cage also meant there was no nose wheel shimmy issues with touch and go/rollers.
Those C141 pilots should not have perished - but to blame it all on the aeroplane is not entirely reasonable.
"There was a fatal midair collision of two T-41s in Texas but that was due completely to student pilot error. "
Neither should students get the blame for the T41 collision when there may well have been other factors such as the high wing design, limited lookout opportunities and the colour of the airframe leading to potential "see and avoid" conspicuity issues.
"There was a fatal midair collision of two T-41s in Texas but that was due completely to student pilot error. "
1. "We initially flew aerobatics and spins in the aircraft without wearing parachutes"
Just because there was a waiver does not make the risk of not recovering from a spin as low as reasonable practical (ALARP in Risk Mgt speak).
Given " squadron flight safety officer during the first fatal T-3A accident in Feb 95." what was done about it and why did a fix take so long?
2. Density Altitude:
"he Academy Airfield at 6572 feet MSL
Why were the aircraft operated at such ridiculously hot high density altitudes? Thinner air, lower stalling AoA, higher TAS for given IAS (more momentum less effective controls), etc...
"The high density altitude of Academy spin training (between 12,000 and 7,000 feet MSL) did affect the way the aircraft spun and recovered. The thinner the air the less the flight control surfaces have to work with during a spin recovery. I believe this is the main reason all the spin accidents occurred at the Academy."
3. Use of Rudder: Something awry with what was being taught? Low energy state plus rudder (out of balance) are very common factors in Cirus accidents in the circuit pattern. This is an airmanship issue not the aeroplane's fault. The WW2 Harvard trainer had "nasty" stall/ spin characteristics, yet produced 1000s of excellent pilots - provided they were taught how to handle the machine correctly.
"The third fatal mishap occurred in Jun 97 in the pattern at the Academy. The engine quit on climb out on downwind, stalled, entered a spin and hit the ground. The instructor and cadet were both killed. The official safety report said they couldn't determine if the engine was running but trust me it wasn't. They still didn't practice gliding stalls in the T-3. Again, the instructor probably used some rudder to point the nose of the aircraft toward the runway and encountered a little stall buffet for a snap roll spin entry."
Run in and break at low level with excessive rudder, pulling hard, higher stall speed...? Buffet plus demanded or un-demanded roll or yaw = incipient spin.
Ultimately it is the mishandling of a spin recovery that makes it go high rotational - this has happened to may other platforms not just the T3A. It is recoverable if the correct procedure is followed and you have enough spare height. Setting up for deliberate spins, we always used 3000 feet + height of ground for min abandon height, plus 2000 feet to sort spin out plus a good 500 feet per rotation planned to allow plenty of scope for survival.
NB: The T67M had a bigger rudder than the first T3As
4. Vapour Lock: More to do with Air Force wanting single lever operation. Chosen system was inadequate but was re-designed and a fully functional version was about to be installed when project was scrapped in USA at Hondo.
Unlike the T3A, all the T67Ms had three lever manual mixture control - no vapour lock.
5. Brakes:
"
The parking brake brake lock system was designed in a way that allowed air to be sucked into the system when you released the parking brake (brake line pressure lock). We had hundreds of temporary full brake losses, many of them after the pre-takeoff run-up when the parking brake was released. Many of these failures resulted in runway incursions because the plane couldn't be stopped at the hold-short line. I had a full brake failure after run-up and departed the paved taxiway because I couldn't turn the aircraft with the brakes. The brake pedal would go full down with no braking action at all. If you pumped the brakes they would usually come right back. We stopped soloing students for a long time because of the brake failure issue."
Again we don't rely on parking brakes whilst doing run ups - cover the brakes and be prepared to shut off the throttle as soon as a slippage occurs. Point the machine away from active runway whilst doing Cx?
6. Civi v Military?
". There was much made about the fact that no civilian instructors were involved in the fatal mishaps but the Academy had only military instructors, all the civilian instructors were at Hondo Texas (elevation 930') doing spins in nice thick air. But a civilian instructor was at the controls when a T-3 was destroyed in a landing accident at the Hondo airfield."
Makes no difference if the pilot capable and well trained and follows well thought through SOPs.
7. Terrain?
"The second fatal accident occurred in Sept 96 during a simulated forced landing when the engine actually quit. The aircraft stalled, entered a spin and hit the ground."
What sort of ground? A flat field or rocky outcrop? Again, choice of airfield for training seems to be big issue.
8. End of an era:
"Two families of the cadets killed in the T-3 successfully sued Slingsby for damages (one settled out of court)." - Very sad loss but the US media and such actions also put a nail in the coffin of a company with a long history in aviation who built some capable flying machines with associated job losses.
9. Blame the equipment?
"Throw in the eight fatal Slingsby T67 accidents and it's pretty clear this airplane had serious problems."
Perhaps it was the pilot's training, expectations and reactions to "issues" that exacerbated events. It's happened before and sadly continues today - Perfectly servicable machines can kill - AF447, Colgan 3407, etc.....