Originally Posted by dsc810
The trouble with Flying Lawyer's stance on discussion is that virtually EVERY "accident" whether that be in the air or in a car could possibly lead to a prosecution for some violation of law.
So that means following the above logic we can pretty well shut down PPRuNe and every other web forum as we would be not allowed to discuss incidents or accidents - any of them until both the AAIB report is out and the police/DPP have stated there are not going to prosecute: whether that was the pilot, the CAA, the maintenance or anyone else.
You could not be more wrong. FL's 'stance' that you refer to is mainly a legal one (and there is no point in arguing the rights and wrongs of the law with him, he is simply telling you how it is), but you will see that he also refers to the moral position. There are plenty of things to discuss on PPRuNe, if not speculating about a pilot's guilt in public is all you see in PPRuNe, then maybe go elsewhere.
I see no problem with discussing anything here, we can all choose which threads and fora to read. I stand by two points, in addition to the legal aspects:
First, an aircraft crashes with a pilot at the controls. His actions may or may not have had some influence on the outcome. In the absence of any other obvious causes, thoughts turn to the pilot screwing up. Rather than wait for the results of the forensic examination and the pilot's evidence (assuming he is able to give evidence) people with little understanding of the circumstances feel they can hide behind the anonymity of their user name and the fact that they are not actually confronting the pilot in question and announce all manner of conclusions - conclusions that may well turn out to be right, but that are completely inappropriate to declare in public at this stage. The foregoing is especially true if that 'conclusion' is posted on a forum that is known to the tabloids and may well be (often are) picked up and put into print. These 'conclusions' may also be seen by relatives and friends of people injured or killed in the crash or as a result thereof (that may include the pilot in question).
Second, I have to question the motives of people that play no active part in a forum until something bad happens and then turn up (this forum is a classic example) like circling vultures seeking out a corps to pick over. Just look back over the many pages of this thread for examples. Just look at members' posting history.
Originally Posted by Llama Farmer
You cannot silence the public and take away their liberties... just ensure a fair trial and a verdict based on fair hearing, not what is or isn't in the public domain
Indeed not. But, contrary to seemingly popular beliefs, with liberties come responsibilities. Even freedom of speech has bounds in that you exercising your 'humin rites' may not infringe upon of those of others. As has been said before, if you draw conclusions here, especially those that imply the apportionment of blame, you know that thousands of people, including irresponsible journalists, will see them.
Originally Posted by deefer dog
However it is human nature to speculate and draw conclusions, even early ones. It's also human nature to gossip and it's been happening since the dawn of time. Small town gossip has been taking place ahead of small town court cases for years. Fair or not, that's the way it is.
You speculate all you like and draw your conclusions - I know I certainly do. It is human nature for some people to gossip, others know when to talk to others and when to keep their thoughts to themselves. If you equate the irresistible urge to 'gossip' here, you are equating yourself with the very people you probably criticise for having loose tongues or worse. The human urge to 'gossip' is hardly a mature or reasoned argument for making libellous and unfounded statements here or anywhere else.
I have seen too many good aircrew blamed for aircraft incidents - think of your own examples. I have seen too many incidents where the suspicion immediately falls on the aircrew only later to find that a completely unexpected factor was the cause. I see people all the time professing how wonderful our pilots (military in most instances are, but the same is true for the airlines) right up until something goes wrong and then everything changes - see numerous threads here for a start - and folk are out on the streets demanding blood. The speculative, public apportionment of blame falls into the same category.
Now you all go ahead and be armchair quarterbacks. No one here will stop you.