PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - A Part 61 conundrum for Australian ATPL applicants
Old 8th Jan 2016, 22:19
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das Uber Soldat
 
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The individual examiner/ATO is responsible for conducting the test to the standard required by the Manual of Standards. You may not be aware of this as you won't have read the MOS but there is much more in the test than the IPC.

If you are an airline pilot you might be aware that there is much more to command than instrument proficiency. And if you are a pilot next time you're near a bunch of passengers tell them you dispute the Commonwealths right to require a test for the ATPL.
I've read the MOS inside and out.

There is very little difference. Don't take my word for it though! I've got some time so lets go on a journey of discovery together!

Appendix K.1 ATPL Aeroplane category rating flight test

1. Flight test requirements

1.1 An applicant for an air transport pilot licence with aeroplane category rating flight test must
demonstrate her or his competency, in the units of competency mentioned in clause 3, by
performing manoeuvres in an aeroplane, within the flight tolerances specified in tables 2 and 5 in
Section 1 of Schedule 8 of this MOS.
Interesting, what does Table 2 say? (table 5 refers to an Aerobatics rating?!)

Table 2: Aeroplane general flight tolerances – professional level
1. Applicability
1.1 The flight tolerances in this subsection apply to the following licences and ratings:
(a) commercial pilot licence;
(b) multi-crew pilot licence;
(c) air transport pilot licence;
(d) pilot instructor rating;
(e) instrument rating;
(f) private IFR rating;
(g) flight examiner rating;
(h) aerial application rating;
(i) low-level rating;
(j) aircraft type rating
IPC and ATPL flight tolerances, are exactly the same

What about demonstrated competencies?

The ATPL requires C2, C3, C5, NTS1, NTS2, IFF, IFL, RNE, MCO, CIR, IAP2, IAP3
The IPC requires NTS1, NTS2, IFF, IFL, CIR, IAP2, IAP3

hmm, those look like some differences!

C2.1 – Pre-flight actions and procedures. Can I read the MEL? A NOTAM? Its possible I've been assessed on this so far.
C3.1 – Operate radio equipment. I wont even answer this one.
2.1 RNE.1 – Operate and monitor radio navigation aids and systems. I'd be impressed if you could pass an IPC yet fail this guy.
2.2 RNE.2 – Navigate the aircraft using navigation aids and systems. Refer above.

2.1 MCO.1 – Operate effectively as a crew member. Possibly the only actual point of difference. Yet everything in MCO I'd argue is required regardless despite its omission from the IPC for a successful attempt. Certainly in an OPC this material is looked at and assessed. There is nothing new here, no 'new standard' beyond what has been required in the past.

This 'much more' you refer to as being in the ATPL test vs an IPC (let alone an OPC) is starting to look 'much more' like SFA.

This is supposed to be a mature discussion..... So when laws came in to increase standards and tests for doctors, teachers, nurses etc you'd have opposed them because there would be some who hadn't been trained to the new standard?
Amusingly flawed analogy. First faulty assertion is that this test represents an increase in standards for pilots. The above demonstrates otherwise.

Secondly, if one of these doctors who hadn't been subjected to these increased standards and testing wanted to operate on you, would you have allowed it? If no, then you argue that anyone not subject to the increased testing hasn't met the required competencies, isn't safe and shouldn't be operating/flying. This almost certainly includes you. Are you and 99.9% of Airline Captains not competent Sherm?

If yes, then whats the point of the test? Clearly you see no evidence sufficient to alter your opinion of the competency of the person involved. Which leads directly to lead balloons core point. Where is the evidence that the introduction of this test will have a material affect on the safety of those exercising the privileges of the ATPL?

Or is that past your 'level of comprehension'.

Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 8th Jan 2016 at 23:53.
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