PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore
Old 21st Dec 2015, 14:43
  #3864 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Age: 81
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With all respect ExV:

The transition is seamless, and roll control is not so different to Normal Law.
What if otto ( read A/P) had cranked in aileron or rudder trim before it disconnected? With direct control of the ailerons/spoilers, looks like even small stick displacement can result in fairly high roll rates. I could not see the report's graphics clearly, but maybe some have or can.

We saw the system crank in THS trim in AF447, and that was in an alternate law. So one thing to emphasize is the need to manually trim if not in NORMAL, ya think? Also, the difference in control surface displacement required at 300 knots is prolly vastly different that with gear down and flaps extended, huh?

So I would guess a perfectly normal system with a perfectly rigged jet would move to ALTERNATE with no seat of the pants cues and we could go from there 'cause the warning light and tones would advise us to be gentle.

However, that's not what happened in either crash.

Secondly, 'bird means real PIO - pilot-induced-oscillation. He and I and many here have seen it, and not just those who flew lites. The AF FDR traces show a "twitchy" jet and many of us felt the PF was so concerned with roll that much of the initial aft stick was unintended. Problem was holding it back once roll was under control. I was impressed by the PF in the other crash for getting wings back to level, but the troop made same mistake as AF troop.

@RAT


You prolly had more "laws" than you realized in the 777. Even in the older planes there were reversion "laws" for yaw and pitch dampers, aileron-rudder-interconnect and such. Even 707 and its heirs depended on a good yaw damper, and we lost a KC-135 due to dutch roll when its damper went AWOL.

In the Viper we did not use the term "laws". As with the 'bus we had fixed gains if we lost air data - STBY GAINS lite came on and we had gains for about 300 knots and another set for gear down and maybe 150 knots or so, I can't nail it down. We also had our leading edge flaps "lock" if we had to use alternate flaps or we turned the suckers off, as I did when one of mine failed and folded up ( see my interview)

All of us knew the "real" laws, but called them limiters, and we did not have a plethora of backups, being a simple system and requiring a vastly expanded maneuver envelope.

In any case, RAT, I feel your pain, heh heh.
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