Report is quite lacking in explanation of technical matters, it's HF side is even worse, there are pages upon pages of copypasted material with limited connection to the issues investigated, graphs are hard to read and compare, whole enterprise looks like (feeble, I admit) attempt to protect image of well respected aviator who made string of errors that eventually proved to be fatal, recommendations are quite weak. However, I am very pleasantly surprised by the report.
I expected it to be even worse.
At least, now we know what happened, even if we are left wondering why.
How many crews today could really state they have received comprehensive UPRT or stall training? I would hazard a guess that not that many.
Whaddaya think, would former F-5E driver be exposed to comprehensive UPRT and stall training anytime in his career? Yea or nay?
Originally Posted by
Cripple
The RTLU fault is a non event. Following the ECAM drill would have stopped the nuisance cautions and the a/c would have been Cat 3A and perfectly flyable. Unless you need Cat 3B, why even try a reset?
It certainly would not as ECAM actions were done 3 times before resorting to pulling the breakers and I suspect that alert was triggered when both RTLU channels lost power simultaneously. Still, question is valid: "There is problem with RTLU, so what?" Good answer to it requires excellent system knowledge, something mere ECAM operator might be tragically lacking.
Originally Posted by
Cripple
it appears the CA was trying to make appropriate inputs to recover.
Originally Posted by
marchino61
Yet here we have an accident which could have been prevented by the captain telling the FO "I have control", instead of fighting between the two sidesticks.
Originally Posted by
RAT 5
Here, it seems the captain was trying to do the correct thing with control input, but was thwarted.
CVR transcript is utter disgrace but if the DFDR traces are anything to go by, well, feeble and intermittent nudges forward on the stick are just not appropriate action when faced with horrendous pitchup and stall warning.
Captain was lost too.
Originally Posted by
HunderPercentPlease
Is there an issue with non-yoke inexperienced pilots just pulling up when in trouble (training conditioning from W/S, GPWS etc)?
Not so limited. Issue was identified by certain W. Langewiesche in 1944, when the only sidestick around was one on B-17s and that wasn't used at all. It killed people in yoked aeroplanes. It killed in western in eastern aeroplanes. It killed after stickpusher override.
Originally Posted by
unwory
Could the PF become so fixated on levelling the wings that he was oblivious to pitch?
1. No
2. to support point no 1: rent A320 sim for 10 minutes, disable FACs, pull stick to aft stop, observe the amount of blue on PFD and force needed to hold stick full back
Originally Posted by
wanabee777
That the FAA would certify a commercial aircraft designed with duel flight controls which have no tactile feedback between the two pilots is unconscionable!
Not the first time a PPRuNer claims he knows better than FAA. Stay tuned to see if it's really so.
Originally Posted by
mac76
only last week we did first high stall recovery in bank & with wings level we took 3 to 4000 feet to recover
Either you did not do stall recovery or your sim is even bigger PoS than usual.
Originally Posted by
Denti
Since AF447 we had high and low altitude stall recovery in virtually every simulator event on my previous aircraft (737) with the new stall recovery procedures once they were available.
There is no low alt stall recovery for 737. If you
really stall her down low, best course of action is to put your head between your legs and kiss your ar$€ goodbye.
Originally Posted by
tdracer
Perhaps a different method of stall warning is in order - during high stress/workload, the human mind tends to shut out aural 'distractions' - perhaps the "STALL, STALL, STALL" isn't getting through?
What workload?
Originally Posted by
peekay4
At some point, a stick pusher might even be considered. Heresy, I know.
Not heresy, just ignorance. If I were to give one advice to aspiring & current airline pilots, it would be:
RTFHTBJ!
Stickpushers are not completely harmless, their malfunction can be lethal so they are used only when necessary and have to be overridable. They were overriden with fatal results a couple of times.
Originally Posted by alf5701h;
I was surprised that there was not greater focus on the pitch trim which could have resulted in a nose-up moment complicating stall recovery.
What stall recovery? The one following stall recognition that never happened?
Originally Posted by
JFZ90
I can't imagine a scenario where a pilot would pull back in a pitch up stall.
You don't need to imagine; just read reports: Colgan, Birgenair, Pinnacle, I am too lazy to Google who wrecked 727 at Stony Point...