JW411, thanks for the reply, my time was 62-64, I had come from earlier as a Brat gliding at Bicester being treated like a human (Ron Newall, Ted Simpson, Jamie Jamieson etc) then it all went to pooh at Sheik Othman, anyway fleet looks good, as before we had 2 T31's real exotica but quite soarable,, easy after I had started life airborne on Primary's at Bicester, the Khormaksar thread is superb and how many of us "erks" can say - we swam at Tarshyne and were welcomed ? I can, was much better than the Lido, we just behaved ourselves but often went as guests of the 105 crews whose children we babysat , suppose being mobile helped. still had a good time out there. PH.