PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AW139 G-LBAL helicopter crash in Gillingham, Norfolk
Old 18th Oct 2015, 19:40
  #735 (permalink)  
rotorspeed
 
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Just catching up I'm afraid! You ask if I think the conditions were unsafe or just poorly executed. I suspect the conditions were pretty much as safe as they are for a dark rig departure with no visual references - when, as has been discussed before, the crew climb vertically on instruments before pitching down to generate translation lift to achieve VMini and climb away. G-LBAL's crew poorly executed their departure because they did not have the skills to do it I'm afraid, as Hot and Hi says. It is challenging mind you, and they should ever have attempted it.

I'm amazed you agree with SAS - I'm afraid on this issue he just has no idea of the reality of IMC flying - safely - in the UK. The notion of needing to be VMC until getting an IFR clearance from ATC is farcical - barely any IMC heli operations would take place if so and it is total overkill of caution. SAS - most airspace in the UK is uncontrolled at low level and radar coverage is often not available. I guess traffic density may be far less than in the US though.

It seems even amongst the many quite knowledgable posters here there is no clear agreement what the rules regarding private site VMC to IMC departures are - or should be. Shy has by far the most realistic understanding of practical IMC corporate flying - though I disagree that what is required is a clear set of regulations for private site operations.

Many of us in corporate IFR ops often depart into IMC conditions, particularly in winter. By far the best way of doing so is to achieve VMini+ in VMC then climb into IMC on instruments at VMini+ to MSA. What the cloud base and visibility needs to be to achieve this depends on so many things though. Local obstructions obviously, but particularly also aircraft performance. A heavy AS355F or EC155 will need a lot more distance to achieve Vmini than a light A109. Is the acceleration in ground effect or out, as above scattered trees for example? All of this means that in one case a 200ft cloud base with 300m vis will be fine, and in others 500ft and 600m will be required. And then there is the issue that there is no measure of cloud base or visibility at private sites.

And once on instruments and climbing, the idea of it being hazardous because of no ATC does not make sense - given that any other IFR traffic should be at least 1000ft above, the only other traffic might be other acft similarly climbing out. And the chances of that are virtually nil - unless multiple ops, which would be known.

All of the above means that the key thing required is not more rules but intelligent judgement of the conditions and circumstances. This is the extra challenge of this type of helicopter flying, and it may well be that more qualification of pilots seeking to perform this sort of flying, from aptitude, training, competence and frequency, is required.
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