PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Bombardier offers majority stake in C Series to Airbus
Old 14th Oct 2015, 15:47
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Torquelink
 
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I don’t know if you realize it or not, but you’re suggesting Airbus is playing a dangerous game. I’ve read this kind of comment many times before.
The CS100 has NO direct competition. The A319, A320 and Neo are used by you and others for argument sake and nothing more. So, there’s no other practical reason for even mentioning A or B in comparison to the CSeries without differentiating.
If I may differentiate, Airbus used to have the A318 for direct competition but that was before the first C series test vehicle had even been assembled, which as of 3 years ago, the A318 is no longer produced. I’ll take that for direct competition any day.
As for the Boeing 737. CSeries used to have the B737-600 for direct competition but that aircraft too is no longer produced. Boeing sold a grand total of 69 600s, so neither Boeing or Airbus compete “directly” with Bombardier in this 110-130 seat market segment. Something many pundits seem to be oblivious to. There is some overlap when talking about aircraft types and seat segments. That may be pedantic but I’d also have to acknowledge CSeries has overlap with A&B products. Sorry, but to me, that overlap isn’t totally direct competition as many seem to think. It’s just competition and BBD simply isn’t going to dominate the industry.
Airbus have already “shrunk” their A320 twice just to get to the A318. Sold a grand total of 81 aircraft (to date) before finally tapping out. So I’d ask (I don’t any more) whether the lack of A318 sales is due primarily to the possibility no airline wants 110-130 seat aircraft OR whether the A318 was just too uneconomical to operate in that segment of the market. I could ask the same about the 600 series B737.
What this means for the CS100 is that it has (competitors, but) no direct competitor. Only Embraer E2 and MRJ are close. Since both are Regional Jets and both are outside scope they are unlikely to be sold in large numbers.
Willie: you are quite right: on paper the CS300 doesn't have direct competitors. Except the airlines don't see it that way. They can get A319neos / 737-MAX7s for less money: they burn a tad more fuel on an aircraft basis but have more seats so burns less per seat, have longer legs and are part of a family.

I think the sales performance of the 737-600 and A318 shows the size of the market for the CS100/CS300. Granted its much more economical but there has never been a large 100+ seater market and it seems there never will.

IFC (Ilyushin) might not take delivery of their 32 firm orders, since the ruble has tanked
IFC also has difficulties getting financing other than from the Chinese due to sanctions on Russia
It may surprise you to learn that after LeBourget, European bankers were so impressed with the CSeries that they approached IFC with a new business proposition for financing their CSeries purchases. That deal is no longer in jeopardy. I guess you haven’t read that yet, eh?
Lessors will only take delivery if the manufacturer has sold the aircraft into the market - they are not sales organisations themselves. Launch customer LCI can already walk away from their "orders" as the programme has not met the specified sales waypoints.

I have no doubt that that the CS is a fine aircraft and I am sorry to see the state the project is in now. I wish I could see a rosier future for it but it's looking pretty bleak at present.
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