PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Gnat down at CarFest
View Single Post
Old 5th Aug 2015, 02:21
  #140 (permalink)  
busterbucani
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quite right

Touche, Lomcevak, spellcheck is the bane of my earthly existence.

At least you were paying attention and double checked my assertion with memory perhaps aided by a surreptitious mouse click.

You did rather digress however because the subject at hand is a Gnat traveling at 350 KIAS give or take on the deck pulling hard G to reform with the 2 ship formation. You then concurred with me by saying "This tends to be the case at low altitudes." Therefore mach numbers and high altitudes are of no relevance here.

You say "So, overall not as simple as you have implied." Actually dear boy, it is.

Anyone with any tactical swept wing fighter time will have on their first dual sortie been instructed to pull to the buffet, then through the buffet into full departure before recovering several thousand feet below. A 6-8G pull in a Gnat such as the one shown would easily lead to a high speed high G load departure that I believe we are seeing. It is perhaps the single most classic and tragic cause of repeated airshow accidents in high performance aircraft from 51's to swept wing vintage jets.

And yet many pilots still do not understand that they can stall a fast jet or other aircraft doing 350 KIAS in a bank but level attitude (or any other configuration) by pure G loading. You have demonstrated that you understand this as do others here.

I have several hundred hours in MiG 15 and 17F aircraft (and less time in training aircraft such as the L39 and Dornier Alpajet), a modest background but you will allow of some relevance here. Ditto for the P51 which will also depart with a 6-8G pull in the right conditions. I have zero time in the lovely, iconic and timeless Folland Gnat which is why I have learned much from this discussion. I mourn the lost aircraft as I mourn its pilot.

If I am accused of being an "armchair theorist(s) (are) crawling out of the woodwork" then I stand guilty as charged. The brittle pomposity apparent in these accusations is as unhelpful as it is unattractive.

I have lost a dozen or so close friends and acquaintances in air show crashes in the USA over the last 15-20 years in P51's, F4U's, and F86's. Most to pilot error. I merely seek to understand this accident as do others here.

"There is no reason to doubt the skills of the late pilot or the professionalism of the team and it is disrespectful for anyone to do so.

Just wait for the accident report, please."

Oh My Gawd really??

The team seems professional and the pilot had time in training aircraft, the turboprop Tucano and the Hawk. Ironically his best experience was probably flying the Gnat for what, 8-10 years? This analysis is not disrespectful at all. There seem to be a surfeit of precious old vicars lurking on this thread. Humility dictates that we respect their opinions as they should respect ours.

Do forgive my temerity as a new poster but this is a good thread and a robust exchange of views should be defended from the tyranny of petty minds.


“I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things. ”

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


Tragic accident to be sure, but flying vintage swept wing fighters at airshows is an intoxicating if unforgiving mistress!
busterbucani is offline