Naali, my point that you asked about was in response to RAT5's mention of Jack Jones and Arthur Scargill. The point I was making very badly was in the heyday of Messrs Jones and Scargill the people they were representing had a 'we' mentality. That is where they got their influence from. Once it disappeared and union memberships became just a load of 'I''s it disappeared. If you want any chance of achieving any change, or resisting any change to conditions in the workplace be it cockpit or pit you won't do it as a collection of individuals. It always amuses me when I hear people say "the union should do this or that ..." and I wonder what exactly they think the union is.