Another race to the bottom fear campaign being touted on PPRUNE - so why are Pilot T&Cs always dropping?? due to ever increasing CEO bonuses or maybe it's because the industry is always in flux
Nothing like egotistical fools measuring their self worth with a big "maybe" promotion. No thought given to the long game.
What long game are you talking about - we'll just sit tight on our T&Cs - maybe just tweak a bit around the edges as you suggest and we'll still get aeroplanes and will get the flying - good luck with that - QFI was anaemic 12 months ago with fuel prices higher, a capacity dump by overseas carriers and partnerships being signed left right and centre whilst QF Intl shrunk. Things are getting better now but those headwinds will continue again at some point or will be in another form - not company generated spin but reality - I'm not after promotion, I'd rather the company was positioned for that situation so all pilots can keep there jobs at that point.
Just like those that rushed to JQ to chase a promotion and wonder what the hell they were thinking.
Yes but they did and that genii is out of the bottle - go on keep pretending it isn't
Zero promotions have been assured. Zero. No guarantees it's not just a 747 replacement. As others have suggested No top up pay protections like the cabin crew have if they get busted to QCCA.
Correct - no promotions can ever be assured except through growth - A new type will definitely be a 744 replacement and given the age of some of the A330s and 50 options on the 787 it may even replace the A330 in time. I prefer to deal in facts today which say that AIPA has spent time getting the best deal they can for a new type.
Big sweeping statements, dumbing down conditions and falling hook line and sinker for the company spin.
Typical adversarial approach to the company and believe they're just here to screw you down - good on you - the primary drivers in Qantas and any company are always commercial and if the IR spin doctors can get a strategy to negotiate off that back of that then no doubt they will. I reckon the tight timeline of this is purely market driven to coincide with the full year results and not to rush a YES vote by ignorant pilots - you can have your opinion that it's all about robbing you of your overtime - fact is the company wants costs to come out - labour costs are about the only lever they can pull in this area - the investors will not stomach a 787 purchase with pilot's on 744/A380 terms - there will have to be a give - that's just reality, wish it wasn't but it is.
Wayne Kearns is correct. Pilots really are stupid.
WK getting quoted again as some mastermind pulling the strings here.
I'm not suggesting that the staus Quo stays. Agree the PSN is a good idea, so is rationalising overtime to a more reasonable level.
So have a bet each way then. Advocate some change but perhaps not as must as what is on offer - if that's the case go ahead and vote NO and see what AIPA can renegotiate on your behalf, if they get the chance.
I still believe you should get SOME overtime for doing an 18 hour plus TOD
.
Why because you've always had it?? look around at other airline contracts and see what they are paid in terms of overtime and see what you can negotiate on that basis. Also ask the crews that do 2 or 3 pilot back of the clock duties what that kind of fatiguing duty is worth to them - you'll get a different answer to yours on what deserves what - in the end it only matters what you can negotiate with the company - if you want overtime after X hours then you can probably have a lower hourly rate instead.
Giving away overtime in its ENTIRETY AND night credits is gifting everything in a good operating environment, when the macro economic times are just improving for Qantas International.
Yes the fact is the company is getting some tailwinds - fact is this will allow the company to purchase aeroplanes to replace the 744 and maybe the A330 - fact is ULH flying on long thin routes with a new type will probably require additional crews as frequencies will probably go up - if they don't go up then so be it, in that case you'll be flying less pax around than the 744/380 did - do you the think in that case the company will pay the same as a 744/380 pilot for carrying less pax and therefore producing less revenue?? When 777-8x arrives it'll carry more pax than the 789, but they won't arrive in QF colours if we're still getting around paying double time or more for the last few hours of the sector. Fact is Pilot salaries do impact on the profitability of routes - Networks don't model a route and say No-Go based on the CEOs bonus, but they will pull off a route or not start one based on aircraft operating variables such as crew costs including hotels, allowances and pay. We work in a low margin business where EVERY cost counts. The company 'spins' this line because it's reality - I reckon hold the line as much as possible and argue the toss over keeping as much as possible in our T&Cs - but the world is also turning.
Conditions once given away are NEVER returned.
True - can you live with what's on offer though? Hold the line if you can but see where the momentum is taking things and get the best deal you can.
But when pilots have a do it at any cost mentality they are easily fooled.
Farm sold for nothing but a glimmer of hope.
No ones selling the farm here - take a look at the deal on offer in it's entirety if you're actually in the game and not some bystander - if you are the latter then take your 'fear campaign' somewhere else.
If I were Qantas I'd use this weak/give anything away mindset to totally rip apart terms and conditions for when the A320 Neos replace the 737.
Start talking to Network/Cobham,JQ and get QF pilots rushing to the door to offer pay cuts to secure the 90 plus orders.
If I were Qantas and couldn't get the deal I wanted I'd set up a greenfields international operation and drive a wedge through the pilot ranks that way - the FWA is still relatively untested in this area - who wants to press to test on that scenario? Fact is no one on this forum is a senior decision maker in Qantas, so it's all BS. The domestic 'fight' that you preview is a possibility but it is for another day - doing a deal for the LHEBA does not preclude any number of future deals being more aggressively contested as a pilot group.