Genghis and all,
Have been trudging through your many exchanges just now - from the point of view of someone new to this thread, every single reply seems to have its own merits which is bl**dy annoying.
I too am in the sticky situation. Currently a Vig T MK1 driver with well over 100 hours, 60+ of which as captain/P1. I am now beginning on the extremely long and winding road to ATPL, starting with PPL.
After speaking to three separate persons in Flight Crew Licencing at the CAA (twice by phone, once yesterday in person at CAA House, Gatwick) I have had three completely different answers which, along with LASORs, has left me not knowing @rse from elbow.
1st opinion: as per LASORs, and as you have bags of experience flying SLMG, you can count 10% (max 10 hours) of your total P1 hours towards your PPL.
2nd opinion: as per LASORs, and as you have bags of experience flying TMG, you can count ALL your hours, thereby only requiring the PPL exams, skills tests, and "discretionary" training to gain your PPL(A) with TMG rating. This opinion is supported by a friend who took the same route several years ago and now flies big jets - at the time he obtained a letter from the almighty CAA declaring that all his hours on Vig T Mk1 counted as if he'd been flying a Warrior. I take it from following this thread that this has now been overturned.
3rd opinion: although your hours on Vigilant count as TMG time (and therefore logbook hours), they do not count towards your PPL as per Grob 109 and you can therefore only count 10% (max 10 hours) of your logged P1 time towards your PPL training. HOWEVER, once you have a PPL, all your hours on Vig count as logged time thereby boosting your PPL hours. By this route, I could therefore start my PPL with 6 hours (10% of 60 hours) and finish it with near enough 150 hours. Bizarre!!!
Personally I think the 3rd opinion is most likely to take effect because as any VGS Vig pilot will know, gliding range can be one hell of a constraint - I've only ever done one nav-ex (cross-country in civvie terms) and rarely been outside of 15 nm from the airfield - how can anyone award a PPL to this kind of experience? Furthermore, military RT is non-existent compared to civvie formalities. I've never done a PFL (practice forced landing), spin awareness, got no formal experience of classified airspace, never even considered MATZ penetration ... the list goes on. And I'd like to see a PA-28 do a turnback EFATO at 500ft and still have room to level the wings
I do not intend to get involved in the argument as to whether the Vigilant is a Grob 109 and therefore whether it is a TMG or an SLMG (although I have to admit guys, how would any of you other VGS Vig drivers certify exactly how many hours you have completed with the engine on 100% of the time... I personally have spent many a sortie - as captain and P2 - out and about with the engine shut down for a third or more of the time... can we realistically expect the CAA to grant a licence based on our RAF Form XXXX (logbooks) because this gives naff-all definition between how many powered/gliding hours we have completed. All they can determine from these hours is that a certain proportion of them are guaranteed engine-on hours (I haven't yet seen a Vigilant launched with the engine off). Perhaps if we submitted the authorisation forms (which declare which sorties included engine-off time)... but that would be over the top surely.
But I would be very interested to hear if any of you have reached an outcome with your investigations with the CAA as to just what hours on Vigilant T1 actually count for - and if you have not done so yet, I would be more than willing to do what I could to help us all reach a successful conclusion on the matter. After all, the Vigilant/Grob 109 might have one wheel in the wrong place to pass for a PA-28/C150 but it's still an aeroplane and I don't see why we shouldn't count our valuable hours on type in the same way as any student learning on these types.
FFL