Thanks for that Al and Rhino. Your nav story reminds me of a trick played by a mate when he was a DC9 training captain. Apparently there is a one degree speed brake position on the a/c which hardly effects the performance but doubles the amount of aileron movement. So he would quietly pop brakes and then throw the jet around the sky. Then he would pop the brakes back in and give the poor trainees withering looks as they tried to match his piloting prowess ..