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Old 10th Sep 2014, 15:02
  #331 (permalink)  
Lonewolf_50
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,200
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PJ2, glad to "see" you again.

No argument with your points.

My response was more about the space between the ears of the three pilots involved, and an attempt to address why (since they were in the "surprise mode" for quite a while during this upset) there was a point at which the Captain could have begun to issue the directions, or take the controls himself, to return the aircraft to "flying" versus "falling," overcome the inertia downwards with flight control inputs that would have arrested the descent (after overcoming the stall) before the aircraft reached the surface of the ocean. I recall the assessments and estimates you mention.

Since he did not have the benefit of knowing the scenario he was in as he entered the cockpit, the "run out of time" issue boils down to establishing inside his decision making ability "what is the aircraft's flight condition?" and then deciding "what shall I do/direct to get it back into control?"

I raised the point on how he was coaching Bonin into controlling his roll control since I think his initial assessment was that he was dealing with an unusual attitude recovery problem ... which he sort of was, but I have no idea if he ever arrived at the conclusion that "this sumbitch is stalled!" I'd guess he did at some point, but where was that? No idea.

Any decision point reached before the estimaged point of no return (your point on the denser air as they fell is well made) would need to be acted on by a correct application of anti-stall control inputs and a stall recovery.

I recall the long discussions on the point of no return, which you so kindly summarized concisely. My intent in the reply hopefully does not contradict anything from that discussion. If it does so, then my error is acknowledged, and maybe ti addressed tdrader's question clumsily. I suppose my "time he didn't have" contradicts the idea that if he'd reached the decision sooner that "it is stalled" and "Do This To Unstall The Aircraft!" were his instructions, then there should have been enough time to recover before impact with the surface.
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