Pprunefan#1 – since you seem to love quoting others so much I thought we’d have a recap of some of your comments:
In the category ‘It’s not what you say it’s the way that you say it’ ;
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Some pilot comes on here admitting that he and another 5000+ hour goofball were so low so far out on finals to a runway that a farmer thought he could hit him with his cap, and we're all supposed to go, "Oh yeah, terrible farmer"?!
Heh- and you still screwed up! Maybe you should stop thinking that you've learned all there is to learn, you pompous twit.
Oh dear, it gets this way every time I have a discussion with a group of helicopter pilots - I come away with such a splitting headache! Some of you are truly dense...or maybe daft. Or maybe narrow-minded
But dear Lord, some of you are so insufferable. So many assumptions on such scant information! I have very little respect for any of you lads. As for my "mysterious" identity, 007 has nothing on you lot!
Cap in hand? Not bl**dy likely! You all (including the mods) can kiss my a**. Cap in hand, oh please. You must be mistaking me for someone who cares about being banned from this board (don't any of you have anything serious to do with your lives?).
Oh shut up. Just shut the hell up. I notice that *you* Thomas did not add anything constructive to the conversation. So shut up, mm'k?
Finally, let's go right back to the horse's...er, mouth. I'm speaking of course of TOT, who started this melee
Oh, and real helicopter pilots do NOT refer to them as "choppers," which tells us all we need to know about TOT.
I call you an R-22 pilot because that is the way you come across in this forum: inexperienced and of limited intelligence. Not everyone flies SAR - some of us have real jobs, doing real things with helis that have to make money
Old Man, the fact that you pose this question tells me two things: 1) You have never flown in the offshore environment, and 2) You would not believe me if I told you. So I'll offer this bit of advice. Go find a real heli pilot (e.g. one who is not you) who actually flies offshore, and ask him whether he uses a steep or shallow approach. Then get back to me with your apology, you fatuous cock.
OMR, your ignorance of these techniques is probably due merely to your inexperience with such operations. Please do not feel bad. With more flight time and exposure, these weaknesses can be addressed and corrected.
If you've been following this thread...and many of you must be, judging by the number of views it's received...you'll know that there are a whole bunch of pompous windbags out there - those whose egos far outstrip their ability. They try to pass themselves off as such experts, but in reality they're not
It's a big industry out there, with all sorts of people doing all sorts of things with helicopters. And with very few exception, every helicopter pilot I've ever met thought he was God's gift to aviation...the absolute authority on How To Fly...pompous twits, every one. Those who post regularly on this board are the obvious examples of a circle-jerk gone horribly wrong
Kids, take whatever you read on this forum with a HUGE grain of salt. With the exception of Shawn and Nick, most of these guys don't have a clue as to what they're talking about (e.g. that sleepy, cranky night pilot from GLS).
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On the subject of approach angles:
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I don't think anybody in their right mind would advocate making steep approaches below ETL unless it was absolutely necessary due to terrain or obstruction considerations.
Well mate, once you slow back below ETL you are at an OGE hover, and you do that well before getting to the helideck. I guess you've never flown a 206L-3 or 407 in the Gulf of Mexico. Ask any of the pilots who have done it on a calm summer day. They'll tell you.
It is true that a steeper/faster approach (say, holding 45 kts all the way down) will require some sort of flare at the bottom, which many pilots seem to think is immoral and should be illegal. But airplane pilots seem to acquire the knack of flaring as they land, so I doubt helo pilots should have too much trouble with the procedure, as long as it is understood that you shouldn't flare too low, and the approach may very well terminate to the ground if the power is not there and you plan for that eventuality (as I do with all of my approaches). Hovering is never guaranteed.
It allows us to load-up the rotor early. Finally and probably most important, a steeper approach lessens the chance of having to flare to kill off any excess forward speed, however small. On an oil platform or rig, your visual cues may be extremely limited, especially if the helideck is small (they always are) and is the highest thing on the platform. Even making a "small" nose-up pitch attitude adjustment may cause the tail to strike the helideck or catch-fence.
It's not that I *don't* know how to make a single-engine approach to an oil rig. In singles, we come in steeper rather than shallow. This allows us to better judge our rates of closure and descent.
My advice to my pilots is that they fly steep rather than shallow approaches. It lessens the pitch-attitude change at the bottom, and gives better control of the aircraft as you near your "aim point"
Now before all of you self-proclaimed "experts" jump on me, let me say this. A steep approach (say 8 to 10 degrees) allows you to dissipate your forward speed without any appreciable flare. Just squeak in a little collective and the ship should settle nicely into a hover (if you've done the rest right).
Helicopters should make steeper approaches than airplanes. Why? Because we can.
Well, we've certainly beaten this topic to death. Just in case anyone missed it, I avoid shallow approaches in helicopters if I can.
Mine recommended steep, slow, stabilized approaches where just about all the power was pulled in by 200' and you just sort of crept down the rest of the way.
The point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Using the same approach type for every landing is the mark of a real amateur.
For the record, I do avoid approaches shallower than 10 degrees. I think they're unnecessary. Helicopters do very nice, very safe 10-12 degree approaches. Steeper than that? Sure, if the conditions warrant.
Let's clean up some loose ends and revue: I recommend steep approaches. There, is that so hard
My dear fellow, it was *YOU* who leapt to the preposterous conclusion that I advocate steep approaches all the time. I believe that if you read some of *my* posts, you'd realize that is not the case.
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So to summarise – You like - a. insulting people and b. steep approaches only
You dislike – a. helicopter pilots and b. moderators
Your experience with oil rigs ( and btw does 16 minutes flight time from the coast really qualify as offshore?) seems to be based on once carrying 6 skinny people with little fuel to a helideck that you flew a steep approach to an OGE hover when you knew that hovering is never guaranteed. Your paranoia with striking the tail due to flaring at the end of the approach is endearing as anyone who claims to be as great as you would just come to a slightly higher hover. Oh yes I forgot since hovering is never guaranteed it is much better to pull to max power at 200’ and let it waffle in hoping that ground effect will save you. Does your helo not have performance graphs or do you disregard them as they are not in the limitations section?