PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Cessna stalls and prangs during TIF take off
Old 23rd Jun 2014, 05:19
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43Inches
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I think Judd may have somehow responded to this on the wrong thread;

Using aileron only to stop the right roll at that point would have caused sharp adverse yaw
Maybe on wartime aircraft but not nowadays. However Frise ailerons were designed to prevent adverse yaw and I believe all Cessna singles are designed with Frise ailerons. Sharp adverse yaw should not occur. Especially as Cessna wing design and ailerons are designed to be effective below stalling speed.
I suggest you go to a flying school, hire a Cessna or Piper and play around with the controls. As you roll the wings back and forth see what the balance ball does, it will not stay centred if you don't help it with rudder.

Many trainers have design features to minimise the undesirable further effects of controls, but that is all they do, minimise them. PA28s have almost every design feature under the sun, frise and differential ailerons, washout, it will still slip when rolled into a turn without rudder, just not as much as some other types.

Frise and differential ailerons managed adverse yaw in different ways but their effectiveness will be airspeed dependant, so how much adverse yaw they eliminate depends on speed and angle of attack, probably designed to be as neutral as possible around normal cruise speed to make en-route cruising and navigating less work.

Compared to the efficiency of the rudder at managing yaw these aileron based fixes will increase drag more than needed resulting in more performance loss than if rudder was used correctly. Adding to the point about coordinated use of controls, any large control movement will slow the aircraft further and add to the risk of stall at low speed.

The situation described in the accident is exactly what I have seen when students try to pick up a wing with aileron only, the aircraft gets stuck in a wing low stalled situation almost as if it's moving sideways more than forwards, usually accompanied with a lot of buffet. Ease the nose down, apply a bit of rudder to straighten and away you go.
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