PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Channel 7 Sunday Night Program About VH-MDX
Old 9th Jun 2014, 07:11
  #537 (permalink)  
Check_Thrust
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Queensland
Age: 40
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 5 Posts
Thank you for answering my question Dick.

Now I do agree with you that N25BR was a "classic CFIT accident" whereas MDX was uncontrolled when it went down. But here is in my opinion the similarities between the two incidents.

The crew of N25BR elected to depart VFR in marginal VMC conditions instead of requesting an IFR clearance on the ground, this was probrably done to try and avoid delaying their depart. After they got airborne they requested to change to IFR but were essentially told that an IFR clearance was not available at that time, which to me is essentially saying "remain OCTA" (yes, I do understand that they were inside CTA for IFR aircraft but did not require clearance to be there as a VFR flight). Whilst manoeuvering to maintain VMC they impacted terrain. Now was this accident the fault of ATC? No. Was it the fault of the system of airspace? No. Was it the fault of the aircrews decision to depart in marginal VMC conditions in an attempt to elicit a faster clearence? Probably. If they requested an IFR clearance on the ground and had been issued one regards of whether or not a delay was incurred would have the accident occurred? Probably not. Therefore this accident could be most easily summarised as pilot error.

Now, the pilot of MDX elected not to wait for a clearance through Williamtown airspace. He chose to take his planned inland track. The controller at WLM was prepared to let him in through his airspace (granted MDX was not aware of this because there were issues with getting a clearance for his flight post WLM airspace, not due to the RAAF or their airspace). It may seem rough for me to say this, but an option was provided to MDX, he turned it down, he elected to go inland. Yes, if he transited WLM the outcome of his flight may have been different. Yes, to have been given the clearance to transit the airspace he would of needed to hold, if he was worried about the holding time he could of requested an estimate of how long it was going to take. Therefore, in my opinion, the major factor in this accident was pilot error. The RAAF did not make him take that route, yes they made him plan that route, but they did not make him take it.

If the same situation was to occur tonight, a NVFR aircraft planning the same flight with the exact same equipment and the same weather conditions of the night MDX went missing I dare say the outcome would perhaps be different. The reason for this is the fact that the hypothetical pilot in this scenario would be requesting a clearance directly from the WLM controller rather than having to deal with FIS who in turn had to deal with WLM and SY on behalf of MDX, in which case he would of been granted a clearance through WLM airspace more expeditiously, however issues perhaps would have still arisen when he reached the boundary of the next airspace sector due to the weather, not the RAAF, not civilian ATC, and the final outcome would depend on the decisions made by the PIC.

Just to be clear Dick, I am not against your desire to lift the flight planning restriction in regards to Williamtown, in fact I am for it. However I have my doubts as to whether or not it would of had any bearing in regards to the outcome of the flight of MDX if the clearance was denied by SY due to the weather.

I do find it disgusting though your statement that you hold the RAAF responsible for the deaths of those onboard MDX. Do you hold anyone else responsible for the deaths of the people onboard N25BR other than the pilots, I don't think you do as you stated it looked like a classic CFIT. So why is anyone else responsible for the outcome of the flight of MDX?

Yes, argue for a better system for traffic wanting to operate around Williamtown, but do not utilise a tragic accident that really does not have anything to do with it for the purpose. Do not unfairly tarnish people and an organisation that did not force the accident to occur. I do not work, nor have I ever worked for the RAAF or any branch of the armed forces for that matter, but I still find your public comments regarding the RAAF insulting and I would appreciate for an apology to be forthcoming from you to the RAAF.
Check_Thrust is offline