Vin Rouge, I had no intention of criticising any group. I am ex RAF and current airline, so I have seen plenty of ill-founded stereotyping from and against both groups, and in my experience, you have to take each individual as they come -there are good and bad everywhere. However, when I made some enquiries a while back to see what the service reaction was to this scheme, I got my head bitten off. I hadn't made any kind of comment, I merely asked what their views on the scheme were, and I received a stream of insults. So, while I hope that the A330 Sqns have a healthier atmosphere, my suspicions of the distrust amongst service personnel towards civvies seemed well founded. That may be broken down after a while of joint operations, where they see that civvies aren't all hopeless pilots and the civvies see that the RAF guys aren't all arrogant kids, but it'll take longer for the fast jet Sqns to accept them.