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Old 9th May 2014, 14:40
  #8 (permalink)  
wiggy
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,556
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In case you hadn't realised there are two sides to this and we on the flight deck don't screw you around for the hell of it.

As a 25 year plus heavy driver with a UK perspective dare I add..

1. For our friends in the States.....our Flight Safety guys and our management are all over our backsides if we aren't stable (i.e configured and spooled up) at 1000 feet aal - does a "tea and biscuits interview, without the tea and biscuits" translate???. If you "offer" us "cleared for the ILS, maintain 160/170/180 to 5" we're going to do our best, honestly, because we aim to please,but in a slippery heavy it might be a "unable" and I will tell you if that is the case. I certainly don't appreciate the "if you don't it, we'll send you around" threat so beloved by some at New York Tracon....This isn't an abstract work like "Moving Tin", I (and my colleagues) are the one's in and handling the energy of a couple of hundred of tonnes of airframe and a couple of hundred SOBs and we certainly don't want to go off the end at high speed. Even if you don't care about me and my own surely you don't want to create problems for your colleagues in the tower when they have to roll the trucks and fill in the paperwork.???......Capice?...

"the only way things may improve is if everyone takes a stand and starts breaking aircraft off or sending them around. I can think of a certain London airport where a few airlines may suddenly get the message as half of their fleet get sent around!". Brilliant. Just let us know when you're planning to do that otherwise you'll be the one getting the message after a few "Minimum Fuel" or "Pan" calls on the go around. I can only say again - we don't do this to screw you around....believe it or not 160 to 4 is a struggle on some types, make it 160 to 5 and we'll all be happy, honest. Garf forbid but is it just possible London ATC's requirements/SOPS are out of kilter with what is achievable safely in the real world? See my comments about "Moving Tin" - maybe it's not just a New York Tracon thing......

2. "I'd like to add to that crews who dive down at the start of their descent rather than following a normal profile, then being significantly lower than the a/c 10nm behind and subsequently slow down much more quickly screwing up the spacing."

Not sure what a UK "normal profile" is (?VNAV). It's worth considering that what you are seeing might be a consequence of our friends from the States following their own fairly clear rules on this, which is in the absence of a "PD" from you they are going to descend (initially at least) at max rate....

At the end of the day lets be friends and communicate. We're all constrained by our own rule set(s), so it's good to talk,isn't it .......

Last edited by wiggy; 9th May 2014 at 16:15.
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