Setting the Record straight on Red Baron.
Dear L’aviator,
There should be no surprises as to who has written this post. I am not trying to hide behind the anonymity of a forum user name.
A friend told me about this thread and suggested I have a look, he even offered to respond on my behalf. After some consideration I decided to respond myself. I generally ignore these forums as a matter of course, however I feel compelled to set the record straight after reading the comments by Humbly Reserved (HR).
It would appear that I have had some good dealings with HR in the past, as he seems to be damming with faint praise during his critical post. Sadly, a brief check on the RB website would have revealed that I am still involved with RB and do still run it.
I will try to address each of the criticisms raised by HR. I welcome critique as it helps realise where improvement can be made. I don’t appreciate lies being spread in the name of advice to someone who may not know better.
Does RB try to extract as much money from customers as possible?
The culture at RB is still the same as it’s always been in many respects. It’s staffed by people who love their flying and in particular aerobatics. We are driven by a desire to deliver the highest quality training we can. Our standard are high, but even HR admits, so is the quality of our students flying. RB is also a commercial business run for profit.
When someone comes to us for training they have looked at other flying schools and decided they want to learn our way in our aircraft. At no time is the customer told they cannot leave if they are not happy with the quality of the training or the outcomes we are trying to achieve. Learning to fly takes time and money, sometimes peoples expectations of their own skills may not match the reality when faced with the actual objective. This applies to non-aviation training as well. Without knowing the actual people HR is referring to, I can only assume that perhaps these people’s expectations of their own skills did not meet with the budget they had set for their flight training. If a student cannot reach the required skill level for a lesson objective then they must repeat that objective until the skill level is met. We often try to be realistic with a student that is showing signs of stagnation to help them decide if they should continue or not. There are two sides to every story and we have training records that will show why anyone is not meeting the required standard. Some students are lazy and only think about flying as they walk through the door for their next lesson, this is not conducive to good learning.
Does RB charge above “Market Rate”?
HR accuses RB of charging above market rates? On what basis does HR make this claim?
If you compare RB to the only other flying school on Bankstown that operates Robins and other aerobatic types then RB is actually cheaper per hour for training than that school (info freely available on the websites of both schools). If you compare RB to other schools, then you are comparing apples with bananas! RB flies late model fully aerobatic trainers with experienced dedicated instructors who have made it their career to instruct as apposed to a step into the airlines. We have a unique syllabus that incorporates aerobatics into the GFPT, this increases the course length but gives the student a higher level of skill on completion. Most schools don’t realistically teach to the CASA minimum but will always quote on that minimum to make the cost look good.
GA also seems to be suffering from a recession at the moment, evident by the massive drop in movements at Bankstown and other training airports since 2007. RB charges what the market can bare and what allows it to survive in the hardest business environment to be in since the depression. If HR would like to suggest what business background they are coming from to make such an accusation then I’m happy to take that into consideration.
Students in Victoria.
HR refers to three RB students applying for a job in Vic last year. I have checked and we can’t find only recent students or recent CPL graduates that applied for any jobs down there last year. We had several students do instrument ratings out of Moorabin but none applied for jobs from what we can tell. As HR admits, they flew well, as for their attitude/airmanship, the description is vague and doesn’t really make sense. I don’t employ everyone that asks me for a job, perhaps there’s a perfectly good reason for this.
The senior pilot spreading lies about other flying schools.
This is just a lie itself. It’s easy on an anonymous forum to say rubbish like this. Perhaps HR would not make such a slanderous comment himself if not on a anonymous forum. No RB staff have been issues with defamation writs.
Did RB "muscle" out the owner of the Extra?
This for me proves that HR is a liar and throws into doubt all other claims made by him.
This 'so called' good friend of HR’s came to RB to get his Low Level Aerobatic Approval. In getting to know the owner of the Extra 330, it was evident that his operations at Camden were not bearing fruit and that something had to change or he would have to sell the aircraft. I offered several possible solutions, one of which was that I buy a half share in the Extra and that the owner come to Bankstown and work for RB with the aircraft. In the end I was unable to raise the finances but was able to find someone willing to buy the aircraft fully. Even before the sale had gone through the owner had begun training to be online with RB in both Extra’s. After selling the aircraft the owner was offered full time work in Perth, where he is now. I am still in regular contact with him, he is free to fly the Extra whenever he chooses. Should circumstances change he know’s he can come back and work at RB.
It is obvious to me the HR heard a story about how RB acquired the Extra330 and decided to lie about it to give it a bit more authenticity.
L’aviateur, please don’t judge the flying scene at Sydney’s Bankstown Airport from the posts on this thread. I have been here for over 20 years now and while people and businesses have come and gone there are still some great times to be had here. Please let your feet do the judging and come to Bankers and visit some of the schools here. You will find a friendly and passionate bunch of aviation tragics more than happy to share a story and a coffee and some great flying as well. You need to find the school/organisation that best suits your personality, circumstances, budget and aspirations... Good luck with that!
HR, I don’t know what compelled you to write what you did about RB without getting your facts straight, but I invite you to come back out and visit us and really see what we’re still about. You obviously have had some good times with us before, not sure why you aren’t still around. We just love our flying and aerobatics and yes, we are trying to make a living from it. Is that a crime?
Thanks
JH at RB